Help Me Understand the GURPS Design Perspective

[innerdude]

One of my favourite campaigns ever, we started out as 25-point normal people impressed into the British army in 1752 and shipped out to a new colony port - Saint John, Newfoundland.

After a few traditional mundane adventures, we encountered a witch, then time travellers, cyborgs, a mecha-kraken, a t-rex while each of us discovered 100 points in cinematic/supernatural abilities tied to our characters' personalities - Gunslinger, Gadgeteer, Regeneration, regrowing limbs, Doctor Who-type regeneration, snatching items out of nothing, etc. and a time machine of our own.

And this is basically anathema to my entire concept of why I roleplay. I absolutely despise genre-mash / RIFTS / "Infinite Worlds" style settings, for much the same reasons I despise plane-hopping / planar adventuring in D&D---because you never really know the "rules" of the world, and as such, I can never clearly picture how my character would be interacting/reacting to what's going on around them.

And this is a huuuuuuuuuuge problem in our current campaign, and GURPS isn't helping. For example, I have absolutely zero concept of how weapon damage and related defenses scale in our campaign.

Why?

Because I have absolutely no desire, zero, zip, zilch, none, to spend hours of my life poring over GURPS Ultratech and Sci-Fi just so I can figure out which TL-9 or TL-10 armor I'm supposed to be wearing. I just don't give a crap. That's not why I roleplay. But in context of the gameworld that is presupposed by the GURPS rules, my character would probably have to care about it, even though I, in the real world, don't want to spend a single second thinking about it.

 

[Neonchameleon]

Interesting, I didn't see much discussion about why I like GURPS better that most other RPGs.
GURPS allows me to world build the way I like to world build. I can add the different books to find the things I want to put into my game that serves a narrative or game purpose.

Do I want a fantasy world with low tech robots? Can do it.
Do I want a street level supers game? Can do it.
Do I want a space game where I can duplicate a setting from some of my favorite novels? Can do it.
If there isn't already a source book, it's not hard (if you are willing to put the work in) to make it happen.
And if you look carefully someone probably already has done some work (Star Wars, Harry Potter) even if there isn't an officially licensed book.

The problem here is that the GURPS answer is "can do it" but unfortunately not "can do it well".

The only supers game I've ever played is Marvel Heroic RP. In my experience it hasn't had these power-scale issues.

GURPS runs on a linear scale for damage as stats increase, MHRP runs on a logarithmic one. This means in GURPS if something has even the faintest chance of resisting the Hulk Iron Man can't scratch the paintwork, and Hawkeye might as well not turn up at all unless he is going for a munchkin called-shots build beause it's the only way he stands a vague chance of keeping up. In MHRP Hulk's rolling a d12, Tony's rolling d10s, and Clint d8s.

Because I have absolutely no desire, zero, zip, zilch, none, to spend hours of my life poring over GURPS Ultratech and Sci-Fi just so I can figure out which TL-9 or TL-10 armor I'm supposed to be wearing. I just don't give a crap. That's not why I roleplay. But in context of the gameworld that is presupposed by the GURPS rules, my character would probably have to care about it, even though I, in the real world, don't want to spend a single second thinking about it.

I see this as no different from D&D 3.X with its vast amounts of gear and magic items. Not a choice I'd make - but a choice a lot of games made in the 80s, 90s, and early 00s.

 

[macd21]

Thing is, most low-powered Supers- good, evil or wandering in the grey- have some kind of ”plot armor.”

I mean, even though it has been written that Batman has a plan to deal with every super being he knows of, there’s no question many of the more godlike ones- Kryptonians, Daxxamites, Green Lanterns, etc.- could easily take him out simply by dropping big rocks from space if they didn’t care about collateral damage...and many don’t.

So the fact that a given RPG can deliver a Batman and a Superman within the same campaign constrictions is, in some way, faithful to a great many comic book settings.

Well, no. An RPG that was faithful to those settings would give Batman some kind of plot armour, so that he doesn’t get swatted by some godlike villain that superman is punching to death.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Plot armor in a work of written fiction makes much more sense than plot armor in an rpg.

Even though we know it’s extremely unlikely that Batman would be killed in an issue of JLA where the plot involved the team fighting off Kryptonians who escaped the Phantom Zone, it doesn’t negatively impact our enjoyment.

But in an RPG campaign with an analogous plotline, an actual “plot armor“ rule protecting hyper talented mundane heroes like Bats would likely be viewed as an unfair safety net by players of characters more like Supes.

Hence my caveat, “in some way”.

 

[macd21]

Plot armor in a work of written fiction makes much more sense than plot armor in an rpg.

Even though we know it’s extremely unlikely that Batman would be killed in an issue of JLA where the plot involved the team fighting off Kryptonians who escaped the Phantom Zone, it doesn’t negatively impact our enjoyment.

But in an RPG campaign with an analogous plotline, an actual “plot armor“ rule protecting hyper talented mundane heroes like Bats would likely be viewed as an unfair safety net by players of characters more like Supes.

Hence my caveat, “in some way”.

Er, no. Plenty of RPGs use some form of plot armour (or something like it). Including as a balancing mechanism.

 

[Umbran]

Plot armor in a work of written fiction makes much more sense than plot armor in an rpg.

I'm going to disagree with that.

But in an RPG campaign with an analogous plotline, an actual “plot armor“ rule protecting hyper talented mundane heroes like Bats would likely be viewed as an unfair safety net by players of characters more like Supes.

Go take a look at... Shadowrun. A mundane person, who has not spent a lot of their build capacity on being magical, or having lots of cyberware, and so on, can have higher Edge. Edge is the game's luck stat, allowing the player to manipulate their die results somewhat - rolling more dice, rerollng dice, buying off critical fumbles, and the like. Edge is powerful - and you can only have lots of it if you are basically mundane.

In Shadowrun, Edge is the thing that allows an unmodified, skilled human to stand up next to orc street samurai with cyberware and submachine guns and elf wizards throwing fireballs and still be viable. It is totally equivalent to "plot armor", and it works pretty well in that respect.

So, imagine a game that allows you to build Superman. Now, assume you have the same build points - enough to build a virtual god. But you don't make them super-fast, super-strong, or armored. Where do you figure all that power goes?

 

[Beleriphon]

So, imagine a game that allows you to build Superman. Now, assume you have the same build points - enough to build a virtual god. But you don't make them super-fast, super-strong, or armored. Where do you figure all that power goes?

Mad skillz yo. That's the M&M answer tons and tons of skills, or power armour.

 

[Umbran]

Mad skillz yo. That's the M&M answer tons and tons of skills, or power armour.

And, quite possibly, absurd luck on the level of "plot armor"...

 

[billd91]

Mad skillz yo. That's the M&M answer tons and tons of skills, or power armour.

And bases. And gear. And a special power pool that allows a player to kit up the specific device(s) necessary to take a big, blue boy scout down a peg on a Gotham City back alley.

 

[uzirath]

And this is basically anathema to my entire concept of why I roleplay. I absolutely despise genre-mash / RIFTS / "Infinite Worlds" style settings, for much the same reasons I despise plane-hopping / planar adventuring in D&D---because you never really know the "rules" of the world, and as such, I can never clearly picture how my character would be interacting/reacting to what's going on around them.

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that either, yet GURPS has been my go-to system since discovering it 25 years ago. So although the "universal" thing is definitely part of the design philosophy, it's not the only element that makes GURPS appealing.

Because I have absolutely no desire, zero, zip, zilch, none, to spend hours of my life poring over GURPS Ultratech and Sci-Fi just so I can figure out which TL-9 or TL-10 armor I'm supposed to be wearing. I just don't give a crap. That's not why I roleplay. But in context of the gameworld that is presupposed by the GURPS rules, my character would probably have to care about it, even though I, in the real world, don't want to spend a single second thinking about it.

This seems like a GM issue to me. I've encountered the same thing with D&D wizards or clerics overwhelmed by all the spell options. What would happen if you asked your GM or the other players in your group, "What armor do you think I should be wearing?" Or, if that seems to break table culture, you could do it in-character. If your character has a high IQ or relevant skills, you could make a skill check yourself. Barring that, you can seek out an NPC, "I ask General Awesome to recommend a new suit of armor for me to pick up at the commissary."

As a GM, I field questions like that all the time, whether in-character or not. I encourage them. I want people to be having fun, and if "poring over GURPS Ultratech" isn't their cup of tea, then I hope they never touch it.