D&D 5E Forgotten Realms: Rising from the Last Realms Shaking Event

[Ruin Explorer]

You say that like it isn't a selling point. As just established, the Sword Coast is a big advantage for WotC publishing strategy precisely due to the generic nature of the region. The 3E FRCS had tons of material on the Dalelands, because it was the core of Greenwood's campaign.

I basically agree.

But the Dalelands, specifically, is too similar to the Sword Coast in pretty much all ways. Culture is similar (especially for adventurers), vibe is similar, terrain is similar (temperate and hilly instead of temperate and coastal). Yeah, there are differences, but the broad vibe is very close. It's like Cascadia vs the SC's North California or something.

It would have made an excellent first book for the 5E Realms.

As the SC book exists I would say going further afield would make sense. Other areas could provide sufficiently broad appeal I think! Though not Cormyr never Cormyr!

 

[Parmandur]

I basically agree.

But the Dalelands, specifically, is too similar to the Sword Coast in pretty much all ways. Culture is similar (especially for adventurers), vibe is similar, terrain is similar (temperate and hilly instead of temperate and coastal). Yeah, there are differences, but the broad vibe is very close. It's like Cascadia vs the SC's North California or something.

It would have made an excellent first book for the 5E Realms.

As the SC book exists I would say going further afield would make sense. Other areas could provide sufficiently broad appeal I think! Though not Cormyr never Cormyr!

Oh, man, small nitpick, but the Sword Coast is more like the entire Pacific Coast of North America: the area detailed in SCAG is actually larger than India.

Point is, if they wanted to do another Realms Setting book detailing more Heroic Fantasy, which they well might do eventually, continuing the generic vibe is what they would want to do, and the Dalelands are deeply detailed in generic specificity. Note that I wasn't suggesting only discussing the Dalelands, but rather the zoom-in chapter, similar to the Tenth District in Ravnica or Sharn in Eberron, would best fit the Dalelands due to it's detailed history and suitable Heroic Fantasy generic status.

 

[Beleriphon]

Point is, if they wanted to do another Realms Setting book detailing more Heroic Fantasy, which they well might do eventually, continuing the generic vibe is what they would want to do, and the Dalelands are deeply detailed in generic specificity. Note that I wasn't suggesting only discussing the Dalelands, but rather the zoom-in chapter, similar to the Tenth District in Ravnica or Sharn in Eberron, would best fit the Dalelands due to it's detailed history and suitable Heroic Fantasy generic status.

It has a couple of point that can work making it more generic it for other setting. Myth Drannor is in the Dales, or close enough. That setups the elf city that is fallen/rebuilt depending on how you care to take its current status. That makes for a nice example of either adventuring site, or a culture to steal borrow.

It has the whole small towns not that far apart vibe one gets from medieval England/ Robin Hood stories as opposed to the Sword Coast's small villages support large cities. Also, less pirates.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

It has the whole small towns not that far apart vibe one gets from medieval England/ Robin Hood stories as opposed to the Sword Coast's small villages support large cities. Also, less pirates.

I agree but my issue is that feel-wise that's still extremely close to the SC, and it's bizarre to ignore the rest of the FR and concentrate solely on two geographically near to each other and culturally similar areas, Myth Drannor or not. Better to do a Myth Drannor adventure path and include the Dalelands on the side imo.

No comment on dubious scale of the SC!

 

[Beleriphon]

I agree but my issue is that feel-wise that's still extremely close to the SC, and it's bizarre to ignore the rest of the FR and concentrate solely on two geographically near to each other and culturally similar areas, Myth Drannor or not. Better to do a Myth Drannor adventure path and include the Dalelands on the side imo.

No comment on dubious scale of the SC!

Fair enough, I think a Myth Drannor AP would be a good place to use the Dales and surrounding area. Starting the PC in the Dales can easily lead to the Myth Drannor.

On the Sword Coast is gets more a city state feel, kind of like classical Greece. Each large city is supported by smaller villages that do the actual farming, while the city buys the food and other goods. I think modeling Waterdeep on Perikles era Athens can be fun.

 

[Parmandur]

I agree but my issue is that feel-wise that's still extremely close to the SC, and it's bizarre to ignore the rest of the FR and concentrate solely on two geographically near to each other and culturally similar areas, Myth Drannor or not. Better to do a Myth Drannor adventure path and include the Dalelands on the side imo.

No comment on dubious scale of the SC!

I'm not suggesting that they would solely focus on the Dalelands, but let me throw a comparison out there:

- Guildmasters Guide to Ravnica Chapter 2 on the Guilds (really a Gazeetter): ~70 pages, compared to Chapter 3 on the Tenth District: ~23 pages

- Rising from the Last War Chapter 2 Gazeeter on Eberron as a whole: ~47 pages, compared with Chapter 3 zoomign in on Sharn: ~31 pages

- Not as exact a comparison, but... 3E FRCS had 30 pages on the Dalelands, and 103 pages on everything in Faerun outside the Dalelands. So, about a quarter of the Gazeeter information was just the Dalelands.

Additionally, while the Dalelands might be a good sandbox set-up, they might be better suited to this sort of location than in an Adventure.

I am speculating based on historical and economic factors, not prescribing what they ought to do...

The size of the Sword Coast is what it is: the place is massive.

 

[Parmandur]

(Addeundum: the territory covered in SCAG & Tomb of Annhilation all told was 29 pages in the FRCS book, slightly less than the Dalelands got. This puts the rest of Farun at 74 pages, which makes a nice ratio)

 

[Urriak Uruk]

OotA's Underdark is the Swordcoasts Underdark. So that leaves just Tomb of Anniliation for Chult. So that is really just Swordcoast (including Underdark and Chult). And FR has more fans then all the other settings combined, by a large margin, 38% vs 5% with 55% Home Brewers cherry picking elements of FR and other setting to add to their own. Get a proper FR setting book out of the way, THEN move on.

sigh Perhaps the reason FR has the most fans is because more than half of all the published 5e adventures are set in FR? Because it was made the default setting for 5e? This is a chicken-or-the-egg debate.

Also, your saying that FR deserves a new setting book because FR is the most popular setting. But I almost guarantee that a majority of people who play FR play in the Sword Coast, which already has a setting book.

So there is really no argument saying areas like Kara-Tur somehow deserves content more than Dark Sun when I highly doubt that more people set adventures in the former.

And let's be clear, you said you want FR to get a book like Eberron's Rising from the Last War, so that you can see areas that aren't the Sword Coast covered. But from the table of contents I've seen, Khorvaire gets almost all the attention and other lands in the world get only 8 pages. You've already gotten most of what Eberron has gotten, you just want an additional magazine article of content.

Shifting away from that to the "canon debate." It doesn't matter. Cut what you don't want, use what you like. D&D isn't Star Wars or Marvel, the only thing that matters in the end is your table, everything else is just recommendations.

 

[Parmandur]

sigh Perhaps the reason FR has the most fans is because more than half of all the published 5e adventures are set in FR? Because it was made the default setting for 5e? This is a chicken-or-the-egg debate.

Also, your saying that FR deserves a new setting book because FR is the most popular setting. But I almost guarantee that a majority of people who play FR play in the Sword Coast, which already has a setting book.

So there is really no argument saying areas like Kara-Tur somehow deserves content more than Dark Sun when I highly doubt that more people set adventures in the former.

And let's be clear, you said you want FR to get a book like Eberron's Rising from the Last War, so that you can see areas that aren't the Sword Coast covered. But from the table of contents I've seen, Khorvaire gets almost all the attention and other lands in the world get only 8 pages. You've already gotten most of what Eberron has gotten, you just want an additional magazine article of content.

Shifting away from that to the "canon debate." It doesn't matter. Cut what you don't want, use what you like. D&D isn't Star Wars or Marvel, the only thing that matters in the end is your table, everything else is just recommendations.

The FR being the most popular pre-dates 5E, that was why they made the decision. Ed Greenwood's relentless support of the Setting for several decades is probably to blame: most other Setting creators moved on.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

You're missing the point though @gyor. I'm the one that WotC is catering to. I know that's rather blunt, but, it's true. They're catering to the casual fan of the setting who isn't massively steeped in the setting. If I want to learn about Turmish, for example, I'll go to Candlekeep or Wikipedia. Why would I need a setting guide? Virtually everything is online anyway.

And, while you are correct that Greyhawk is a city, and yes, Oerth is the planet, the setting is specfically the Flanaess and isn't actually a whole lot bigger than the Sword Coast. Yes, there are some supplements for outside of the Flanaess, but, very few of those are canon and none of them are needed to run the setting.

As far as the Sword Coast goes, what more do I need? I've got a couple of major cities - Waterdeep for one. I've got elf lands and dwarf lands and various dangerous places here and there. I've got Zentarim and Cult of the Dragon. Meh, that's more than enough to run campaigns.

The reason you are not going to get what you are asking for is twofold. 1. They aren't interested in catering to the hardcore FR fan anymore. They are far more interested in the casual like me and the homebrewer, both of which can use the FR material being published without any real difficulty AND, 2. nearly everything you could possibly want to know about FR is online in wikis and on various other places where it is 1000 times more accessible than some dead tree book.

I'm sorry, but, that's why you aren't going to get what you want.

This attitude infuriates me. The type of casual fan you describe infuriates me. It reminds me of somebody describing the virtues of Budweiser while repeatedly refusing offers to go get a beer that is of even slightly better quality. That guy would probably like Granville Island if he knew what it was, but he's refusing to find out. Likewise, these "casuals" lack of interest for new horizons makes the game stale and bland. Like Budweiser. Stop drinking garbage macrobrews.

To change tracks for a few moments, Eberron: Rising from the Last War, the third setting guide for 5e (or fourth, depending on how you want to view the Wayfinder's Guide, which is a total fracas in and of itself and my heart goes out to Keith Baker for making it in the first place despite the controversy it would inevitably cause), just officially released today, and I am loving it. There's a lot of detailed material, both fluff and mechanics, that it offers for my use, and the Gazetteer of Khorvaire, detailing all the major nations of the continent is nothing to scoff at either. And yet, there's a twinge of pain, as I know that future support for Eberron from WotC is unlikely; there won't be any books detailing Xen'drik and Sarlona, and even the Khorvaire Gazetteer misses a few things, and the book yet again zeroes in on Sharn, City of Towers that is in need of exploring for the 13th time apparently. Baker's releasing Exploring Eberron in December, which will fill in some of the unexplored corners of the setting, which is awesome. And Eberron has the advantage of a lack of an advancing metaplot, which means all the sources from 3.5e and 4e are still relevant, just in need of a mechanics conversion.

Not so for Forgotten Realms, at least on the second point; on the first, I'm not sure where to look for community engagement. There's this Crown of Eaerlann thing coming out some time soon, which is... something? Anyways, there is even less support for players and DMs wanting to go beyond the Sword Coast, Mulmaster, the Heartlands, and Chult in 5e, and trawling through the wikia and through old books isn't even taht helpful as all the information in there is in-setting outdated by 13 to 135 years and two cataclysms that rewrote the face of the continent. I want to run a game in Thesk. Maybe go east into Yaïmunnahar, or even further and into Tabot. Ok, where do I even start? And I can't just go and open the equivalent of "Secrets of Sarlona" for Forgotten Realms because all the info in there is outdated in-setting!