D&D 5E Skills and Ability Checks -- Perspective on Consistency vs DM Empowerment

[Charlaquin]

No Arneson designed primordial D&D
OK you fixed it but the typo was also more fun and memorialized here for you

Haha you got me

the other is the trick shot guy using a ?45lb? bow and arrows in his bow hand to fire really fast half draw snap shots. Hey its fun (and speculative) but you are wanting to figure out where legends might have come from (besides obvious exaggeration) .

My own full draw fast shot does not match the 1.6 or 2 seconds per shot of those good at it (3 seconds maybe) and my accuracy is ummmm only ok (in very limited circumstances something about getting old and not exercising enough and vision or something ) .. but they would be like 3 or 4 shots a round and the full functionality.

Which is exactly what a high-level fighter can achieve.

 

[Maxperson]

Just another non-tool

DM Fiat is a tool. It may not be the tool you are looking for, but it is in fact a tool.

 

[Maxperson]

Yes, you have successfully established that common sense and basic knowledge of the system and player abilities are essential DMing skills. In other exciting news, I read an article recently about water. Apparently it’s wet! Who knew?

It's actually not. Wet is the condition of having water on you. Water is not itself wet.

 

[Charlaquin]

It's actually not. Wet is the condition of having water on you. Water is not itself wet.

Incorrect. In hydrodynamics, a surface is considered wet when fluid sticks to it. Water is a fluid, which does indeed stick to the surface of water, therefore water is wet. Q.E.D.

 

[Garthanos]

Which is exactly what a high-level fighter can achieve.

Not even approaching legendary to me way to just what some talented 17 year old does
Not like any single member of the inspiration list for a fighter in the 2e phb that is for sure.

Just realized that makes her accomplishment sound less that it is. She represents not just considerable talent but likely very high degrees of training and discipline muscle memory that is smooth and elegant beautiful in its efficiency. I just do not think fantasy characters past level a certain level should be something too comparable in capabilities to real life people I do want them to be eventually larger than life.

 

[Charlaquin]

Not even approaching legendary to me way to just what some talented 17 year old does. Not like any single member of the inspiration list for a fighter in the 2e phb that is for sure.

I’m sorry, are we talking about 2e here? At any rate, if the number of arrows that can be fired in a turn bothers you that much, narrate more than one shot per attack. Attacks are abstract, there’s no reason it has to be described as one shot/swing per roll. There are, however, important balance reasons for the numbers of attacks characters of each class can make at what levels.

 

[Garthanos]

I’m sorry, are we talking about 2e here?

Should feel epic and legendary and like the Tier flavor implies where as to me it just sucks when what is supposed to be awesome instead feels too realistic.

That said you are of course correct as there is no saying even two shots couldn't go the opposite and be narrated as a trick shot that bounces from one enemy to the next even buy expensive arrows for that purpose if you like to track that kind of thing.

And since combat balance mostly seems fine ... it doesn't need hijinx like messing with that.

 

[Oofta]

Not even approaching legendary to me way to just what some talented 17 year old does
Not like any single member of the inspiration list for a fighter in the 2e phb that is for sure.

Just realized that makes her accomplishment sound less that it is. She represents not just considerable talent but likely very high degrees of training and discipline muscle memory that is smooth and elegant beautiful in its efficiency. I just do not think fantasy characters past level a certain level should be something too comparable in capabilities to real life people I do want them to be eventually larger than life.

Trick shooting stationary targets with minimal force is a parlor trick. A cute parlor trick, but one that would be pointless in combat.

It's like saying a high level wizard isn't that impressive because you saw a stage magician saw a woman in half. While keeping the halves alive and then rejoining them!

 

[Garthanos]

Trick shooting stationary targets with minimal force is a parlor trick.

As for stationary he did it with moving targets and him moving too and he did show that the impact of the shots were within reason for a time with little available in armor or something approaching light chain. (this with the 3 shots in under 2 seconds). I think if 10 shots is doable it might be a set up your load once at the beginning of the fight.

As I said it looks like the mechanics in the 4e game for the Hunters Volley and Rangers are similar with one being a Paragon Robinhood caliber character

You are intent on the idea that martial types be small and realistic box while wizards exceed the capabilities of the greatest of mythology (except maybe Tuatha De Danann who only get close).

 

[Garthanos]

The people doing more normal full attacks at about 1.6 seconds or so per shot occasionally do them moving back and forth and actually firing at a stationary target are doing it with a full draw. So yes its likely more valuable against heavily armored enemies.

The 4e rangers snap shots actually are at reduced accuracy and damage it is more realistic but its also Heroic tier so while the 5e rangers ability is less realistic seeming its also a Paragon tier ability