D&D 5E Skills and Ability Checks -- Perspective on Consistency vs DM Empowerment

[Charlaquin]

No as I said earlier more like that used by Native Americans I do not remember the numbers and it was a half draw he was holding the arrows in the bow hands there is a lot of artwork portraying the arrows in the hand with the bow and Lars figured out it was actually practical for a style of archery,
Lars thinks if he was doing it his whole life like some of the people in the drawings and legends he could do it with a heavier bow too.

The ranger ability in 5e is an astonishing one that exceeds parameters very legendary

Lars Anderson? Really?

 

[Garthanos]

Lars Arneson? Really?

No Arneson designed primordial D&D
OK you fixed it but the typo was also more fun and memorialized here for you
the other is the trick shot guy using a ?45lb? bow and arrows in his bow hand to fire really fast half draw snap shots. Hey its fun (and speculative) but you are wanting to figure out where legends might have come from (besides obvious exaggeration) .

My own full draw fast shot does not match the 1.6 or 2 seconds per shot of those good at it (3 seconds maybe) and my accuracy is ummmm only ok (in very limited circumstances something about getting old and not exercising enough and vision or something ) .. but they would be like 3 or 4 shots a round and the full functionality.

 

[Garthanos]

That’s debatable, but last time I tried to do so I got myself on like three people’s block lists.

Now I can see getting tossed out of the office but to block you... really?

 

[Garthanos]

I believe that he is saying that the chance of a PC to prevent a fellow PC from being hurt from a fall can be automatic (cast Feather Fall) or a range based on the DM that can go from easy ("Sure, I'll let you try to nail his clothing to the wall to stop him falling with a ranged attack" <Sets a reasonable DC>) to almost/actually impossible ("I don't think a real life athlete could do that, so you can't either.")

That is a core of it if the main argument were just about intra table inconsistency For me its more how the plot coupons are only one style ... wo wo wo it's magic you know o oh... never believe it's not so. and with mostly undefined effects people even with expertise or whatever are a bit yeah I have higher numbers but the above undermines those so what?

Unless you happen to have the right plot coupon, your chances of succeeding can depend more on what the DM had for lunch than what you're actually trying to attempt. Furthermore, even though your general capability and power at level 20 may be a hundred times greater than it was at level 1, your chance of succeeding on a mundane task where you can't use magic is unlikely to have improved by much more than maybe 3 times greater.

And that is the other element Awesome Cosmic Power itty bitty living space and 3 times? shrug hard to gage it could be barely at all better.

 

[Ratskinner]

LOL magic isnt important to be flexible this is the part of the system that people first house ruled back in the day... nailed down like a trap its very hard to make ones own game world in face of the D&D spell casters.

No I think if you assume they will really accomplish next to nothing (aside from murder skills and spell casting improvement) that you dont assume already at low levels you are closer to the truth.Bounded accuracy keeps obstacles in scope upwards and downwards too.

I'm not quite sure how to parse the above....So forgive me if I got your position wrong.

Yes, I think magic is important (for D&D as a brand, not me personally) to be pretty much "locked in". Not only because so much of the game mechanically hinges on HP/damage, etc., but because of the "branding" effect of things like "Magic Missile" etc. I completely agree that it makes it hard to deviate too much when world-building...which was actually why I first left D&D to explore other systems.

The second paragraph...I just...erm...Bounded Accuracy keeps the rolls in scope, but the nature and scope of the obstacles which constitute a given DC is generally undefined.

The other incidentals will likely say incidental, the fact that the fighter cannot even match Olympic jumping distance without DM intervention...and can probably get to 20str early which is cool but if things are wired down and forced to stay realistic another 2.5 feet on your standing broad jump isnt going to make the character feel more awesome. Yeah not really

I'm not sure how you're getting this. There is precious little guidance on what determines DC on a Str(Athletics) check. The only jumping rules I'm aware of cover the cost in basic movement.

AFAICT, the GM at table is perfectly capable of changing what constitutes a DC 20 check based on level/tier, as well as (or as part of) their campaign feel. (Heck, toss in class there, if you want.) That may or may not be a fantastic idea overall, but it certainly is a dial that the GM can turn. The big difference, IMO, between D&D and Fate in this regard is simply that Fate has that dial in every direction, for every skill and action*. D&D, because of its more detailed, structured, and exceptional (wrt skill checks) combat rules, can only have that dial as a contrasting mechanism. Personally, that's a limitation of 5e, but overall, it seems to serve its market needs well.


*although, thanks to the influence of aspects and its other mechanics, it makes life easier on the DM.

 

[Garthanos]

I know what give me a story for my big scary looking islander who has a performance skill in underwater basket weaving.

I completely agree that it makes it hard to deviate too much when world-building...

Yup that and many many of those other systems didnt make me feel like I was playing in Gygaxes household with a huge "take it or leave it" sign over the door even their base line was already adjustable decades and decades ago

AFAICT, the GM at table is perfectly capable of changing what constitutes a DC 20 check based on level/tier, as well as (or as part of) their campaign feel.

Here it is the suggestion to just hot swap difficulties this is some inverted bizarro world of what 4e was accused of but wasn't... "Remember that door that was hard to crash through but you are now epic its still hard to crash through it leveled up with you Chortle chortle chortle - says the guy mocking 4e". Now you got a few more pluses a raging huge number( maybe 4 or less) but suddenly the same door is only dc 5 "See you intimidated it and it shrunk there was some reality distortion because bizarro world heck no roll necessary you do not even think about crashing through. When did this change occur not sure."

Basically for me the numbers do not feel like they follow the fluff of the tiers (or allow graduation within it?) ... and doing the above is like admitting it without really fixing it. bailing twine and duct tape fix for the win?

 

[Garthanos]

The way I read the direction on setting a difficulty pretty wired down your choice is based on the thing out there on the world with no reference to the character ability. Sure one guy might decide a jump was easy or hard but it wasn't going to stop being easy or hard because the characters leveled up.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeh that is a "awesome" thing to encourage. Oh its tough to be a God...

I JUST watched that movie last weekend after ordering it on Amazon! I thought of it, and was like, "I liked that movie a lot and haven't seen it in a long time... I think I'll get it."

How strange...

 

[Garthanos]

I JUST watched that movie last weekend after ordering it on Amazon! I thought of it, and was like, "I liked that movie a lot and haven't seen it in a long time... I think I'll get it."

How strange...

Well Its pretty fun timing quirk not much lead in other than the guy hamstringing skill use of a particular stripe got me thinking you know. Oh and Wife and daughter are really fond of Rogues

 

[Maxperson]

There is no baseline.... I cannot even detect what would make it balanced without doing pretty extreme analysis. Even if I wanted skills to be less able than all those other things I couldnt not really with reliability.

Balanced against what? If you deem a check to be easy, you give it the easy DC. If you think it's hard, you make it the hard DC. Easy peasy.