D&D 5E (2014) Assuming Dark Sun is on the horizon, what are your worries?

[The Glen]

I wonder how they're going to handle the fact that 5th edition is death light and dark sun is most definitely not death light.

 

[Coroc]

I wonder how they're going to handle the fact that 5th edition is death light and dark sun is most definitely not death light.

You got a point there, I can remember official 2e recommendation was to create a roster of characters instead of just one, so you have replacement ready, because your main character dies and methods for resurrection are dim at best.
This was also the reason you had to start out at level 3 (single class) since they thought the setting is to deadly for everything weaker. It was explained in game that DS has a higher gravity so everything that lives there is tougher.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Other option would be coming back as revenants, a druid with a reincarnation spell, or the soul is "rescued" in a gem (like a cortical stack in "altered carbone") and this is used with an animal what "digievolution" to an anthropomorphic shape. (OH, MUMMY, NOW I AM A DROMITE!).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't think Dark Sun is on the horizon but assuming it is I have a few worries.

0) None of the people who came up with DS or handled it well still work at WotC or are likely to be hired as consultants. This makes it much more likely that careless changes will be made.

1) Defiling and Preserving, whilst more conceptually relevant than ever may be seen as too political or too complicated by WotC. As such they may well simply be removed and vague, nebulous, non-personal stuff put in their place.

2) WotC hasn't locked down Psionics, at all, and we'd be less than a year from release. So a fundamental part of DS identity might well be a mess. It'd much worse than doing Eberron without Artificers, even.

3) Most subraces and many subclasses simply don't work for DS. DS would need to add subraces for many races, add several races, two of which are challenging to do well (Half-Giants and Thri-Kreen), and add subclasses, some required, for most or all classes (not Rogue or Ranger I guess). This would be huge work and likely to create issues and I worry they'd just take a bad road and change the setting to match the rules to reduce required effort.

4) 5E does not have great rules for survival. To be fair, neither did 2E. But that's a whole chunk of rules to create and get right.

5) 5E doesn't really have design space for the alternate armours, weapons, and armour and weapon materials that give DS part of its character. Perhaps this could still be made, but that's a whole other chunk of rules to get right.

6) Big fundamental issue, 5E is about pretty much everything being compatible and only individual DMs saying no. DS, however, says no to vast chunks of stuff. No to loads of monsters, including D&D classics. No to loads of subclasses and subraces. No to some spells. No to entire concepts (gods, for example). It would be incompatible with virtually all WotC released adventure paths and some entire books. This again might lead WotC to just change DS, making it something else entirely, as it would be so much easier and potentially more profitable than not doing so.

There an awful lot of other issues too. But I think any DS in the next year would likely be a completely different setting, stripped of uniqueness and that 1990s edge, and replaced with marketability. It might even be a good setting! But it would be an entirely different one.

All that said I don't think it will be DS. Spelljammer is strangely well known and conceptually popular with many people who have never played it, including people relatively new to D&D. It also has none of these flaws, is very marketable (and we know Spacefinder sells well), and is the ultimate in cross-marketing in some ways, arguably more than Planescape. So. I think if we see an old setting back it will be that. I note the BG3 trailer features an Illithid Spelljammer ship in it too. And the FR has had Spelljammer ships in it since Spelljammer was a thing (Classic FR borging!).

If we suddenly see a Psion class appear and maybe a survival rules UA and stuff then DS may be on the way, but not before.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

My concern is about after the end of the tyranny of the sorcerer-kings WotC will publish new expansions about adventures in new regions, with titles as "burning crusaders", "wraiths of the lich kings", "post-cataclysm". "Mists of Sandaria", "warlords of Dregorth", "Legionaries", "Battle for Azuth" or "Shadow lairs", with monsters more powerful than previous.

 

[Arnwolf666]

No, and of the classes monks and barbarians ruin the settings environmental challenges with their class abilities. As does any spell which allows for easy magic weapon access, create food or water, or allows for easy travel.

Darksun and Paladin? Won't work there are no Gnomes on Athas and no rapiers either

you mean there were no Persian or Babylonian monasteries. And barbarians in dark sun are just fitting. Although setting appropriate archetypes should be mandatory. The totem theme doesn’t quite fit with dark sun. And berserkers were Norse. But barbarians are very fitting for that brutal society of tribes that lived outside the city walls.

 

[Quartz]

For the sake of argument, let’s assume Dark Sun is on the horizon. What would be some concerns or worries with how this 5e version would be presented?

None. I'm just not interested in Dark Sun. I will likely find ideas in the books stealable, but the Dark Sun setting itself just doesn't grab me.

 

[Remathilis]

I don't think Dark Sun is on the horizon but assuming it is I have a few worries.

0) None of the people who came up with DS or handled it well still work at WotC or are likely to be hired as consultants. This makes it much more likely that careless changes will be made.

1) Defiling and Preserving, whilst more conceptually relevant than ever may be seen as too political or too complicated by WotC. As such they may well simply be removed and vague, nebulous, non-personal stuff put in their place.

2) WotC hasn't locked down Psionics, at all, and we'd be less than a year from release. So a fundamental part of DS identity might well be a mess. It'd much worse than doing Eberron without Artificers, even.

3) Most subraces and many subclasses simply don't work for DS. DS would need to add subraces for many races, add several races, two of which are challenging to do well (Half-Giants and Thri-Kreen), and add subclasses, some required, for most or all classes (not Rogue or Ranger I guess). This would be huge work and likely to create issues and I worry they'd just take a bad road and change the setting to match the rules to reduce required effort.

4) 5E does not have great rules for survival. To be fair, neither did 2E. But that's a whole chunk of rules to create and get right.

5) 5E doesn't really have design space for the alternate armours, weapons, and armour and weapon materials that give DS part of its character. Perhaps this could still be made, but that's a whole other chunk of rules to get right.

6) Big fundamental issue, 5E is about pretty much everything being compatible and only individual DMs saying no. DS, however, says no to vast chunks of stuff. No to loads of monsters, including D&D classics. No to loads of subclasses and subraces. No to some spells. No to entire concepts (gods, for example). It would be incompatible with virtually all WotC released adventure paths and some entire books. This again might lead WotC to just change DS, making it something else entirely, as it would be so much easier and potentially more profitable than not doing so.

There an awful lot of other issues too. But I think any DS in the next year would likely be a completely different setting, stripped of uniqueness and that 1990s edge, and replaced with marketability. It might even be a good setting! But it would be an entirely different one.

All that said I don't think it will be DS. Spelljammer is strangely well known and conceptually popular with many people who have never played it, including people relatively new to D&D. It also has none of these flaws, is very marketable (and we know Spacefinder sells well), and is the ultimate in cross-marketing in some ways, arguably more than Planescape. So. I think if we see an old setting back it will be that. I note the BG3 trailer features an Illithid Spelljammer ship in it too. And the FR has had Spelljammer ships in it since Spelljammer was a thing (Classic FR borging!).

If we suddenly see a Psion class appear and maybe a survival rules UA and stuff then DS may be on the way, but not before.

Almost every point you make of why I feel Dark Sun can only be handled two ways.

1. A watered-down version that attempts to salvage and reuse as much of the core D&D game as possible, adding a few rule variants and liberal use of refluffing to create a D&D in Loincloths variant.

2. A stand-alone game based on (and compatible with) 5e but has its own PHB with appropriate races, classes, equipment, spells and updated, deadlier exploration, combat and magic rules, plus a campaign book with setting info, appropriate monsters and magic items all included so that you never need to reference the PHB/DMG/MM unless you want to add those elements back.

For some reason, people believe WotC will release a sourcebook that literally says "all your other books, including most of the PHB, is invalid". They're not.

 

[Sacrosanct]

None. I'm just not interested in Dark Sun. I will likely find ideas in the books stealable, but the Dark Sun setting itself just doesn't grab me.

for years, it didn't me either. but that's probably because I really don't care for psionics all that much, and the core AD&D game was plenty gritty for me. But one of my issues with 5e is that lack of grit and lethality. So I may give it a shot, at any rate.

 

[gyor]

I'm worried this board is going to explode in nerdrage when they find WotC's vision is closer to the 4e reboot than the 2e box set.

I also worry when they find out it will be another D&D setting rather than some D&D hardmode.

I think this is likely to be mostly true, with some exceptions, like I think instead of recycling Goliaths they will just go a Half Giant race. So I think it will be a compromise between 4e Darksun and 2e Darksun.