D&D 5E Fighting Style for Melee Knife/Dagger Use

[Esker]

You clearly haven't read my cites. PHB p14 says you can use Strength with a thrown weapon attack.

And there is no ranged weapon category. Range is a property (PHB p147). Notice that the weapon proficiencies granted to classes are divided into Simple, Martial, and Simple plus a few (q.v. Bard), or a select group (q.v. Wizard). Classes aren't granted Simple Melee and Simple Ranged Melee.

What PHB are you reading? Do you see the paragraph I quoted about how all weapons are considered either melee or ranged weapons? Simple vs martial is a separate designation; hence the four weapon tables: simple melee, simple ranged, martial melee, martial ranged.

 

[NotAYakk]

The "plain language" standard of 5e makes me think that this "this is a weapon that can be used at range, but isn't a ranged weapon" is something we should discard unless it causes serious balance concerns.

 

[Esker]

The "plain language" standard of 5e makes me think that this "this is a weapon that can be used at range, but isn't a ranged weapon" is something we should discard unless it causes serious balance concerns.

I don't think doing this would be a problem, but I seem to remember Jeremy Crawford saying that the language choice in the sharpshooter feat was intentional.

 

[DND_Reborn]

They made the distinction between melee weapons and ranged weapon to designate which ones use STR (melee) and which ones use DEX (ranged) for attack and damage rolls.

Thrown weapons use STR since they are all listed as melee weapons.

The Finesse property allows DEX to be used in lieu of STR, including being used for Thrown weapons.

SS clearly states "ranged weapons", so simply having a "range" does not make a weapon a "ranged weapon".

I agree, a lot of this is useless word-lawyering IMO, and allowing SS to work with thrown weapons wouldn't break anything, even if that wasn't the design intent.

 

[Esker]

FWIW, the Sage Advice compendium explicitly calls out this distinction. Now this is merely an interpretation of RAW, not a statement of intent.

Does the Archery fighting style work with a melee weapon that you throw?

No, the Archery feature benefits ranged weapons. A melee weapon, such as a dagger or handaxe, is still a melee weapon when you make a ranged attack with it.

 

[dave2008]

Yep @Esker is correct on this one @Quartz . I was going to point out the sage advice, but he/she already did.

 

[Quartz]

Yep @Esker is correct on this one @Quartz .

Oh well, I've been doing it wrong. But I disagree about Sharpshooter: that Sage Advice refers to a ranged attack. Sharpshooter explicitly says a 'ranged weapon attack', not 'attack with a ranged weapon'. Throwing a dagger is a weapon attack, carried out at range.. So Sharpshooter applies.

Edit: Think of it as ranged (weapon attack) vs (ranged weapon) attack.

 

[dave2008]

Oh well, I've been doing it wrong. But I disagree about Sharpshooter: that Sage Advice refers to a ranged attack. Sharpshooter explicitly says a 'ranged weapon attack', not 'attack with a ranged weapon'. Throwing a dagger is a weapon attack, carried out at range.. So Sharpshooter applies.

Edit: Think of it as ranged (weapon attack) vs (ranged weapon) attack.

No sure I agree with on that interpretation, but since no one in my groups has that feat I don't have to worry about it!

 

[Esker]

Oh well, I've been doing it wrong. But I disagree about Sharpshooter: that Sage Advice refers to a ranged attack. Sharpshooter explicitly says a 'ranged weapon attack', not 'attack with a ranged weapon'. Throwing a dagger is a weapon attack, carried out at range.. So Sharpshooter applies.

Edit: Think of it as ranged (weapon attack) vs (ranged weapon) attack.

The first two benefits of the feat apply to daggers since, right, they refer to "ranged (weapon attacks)", but the third benefit (the -5/+10 option) refers to "ranged weapons", so that one doesn't work with daggers.

 

[Greenstone.Walker]

But a dagger in the hands of someone who knows how to use one effectively can be a very deadly.

True. But you know what's even more deadly? Someone with a bigger weapon.

"That's not a knife. This is a knife."

When attacking with a dagger in melee it does 1d6 damage,

I have to ask: why not just use a short sword?

The advantages of daggers should be cultural. A character can wear a dagger in places where swords and axes are forbidden. It is easier to conceal a dagger than a club or light hammer (the dagger has the light tag).

If you want to be a master of thrown weapons, take the sharpshooter feat and use darts, but call them "throwing daggers".