Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank

darjr · Dec 1, 2019

I wonder if a lot of D&D purchasers never had a book before? Or very many.

gss000 · Dec 2, 2019

teitan said:
That two get one free sell is lighting up D&D and Pathfinder.

I thought there might be a black Friday sale that is lifting all games. Cthulu also has some ones on the list.

Looking at the week of Amazon sales numbers, this sale got Pathfinder out of the #4000 to 5000 "channel" it's been stuck in for a few weeks into the 2900 to 3500 ranks. To me, the next question is whether it can maintain this bump after the holidays pr when this sale ends.

I'm wondering when there will be enough outside data to start reporting numbers. I also expected something from Paizo touting 3rd quarter sales with the new edition, but I can't find anything official.

Parmandur · Dec 2, 2019

gss000 said:
I thought there might be a black Friday sale that is lifting all games. Cthulu also has some ones on the list.

Looking at the week of Amazon sales numbers, this sale got Pathfinder out of the #4000 to 5000 "channel" it's been stuck in for a few weeks into the 2900 to 3500 ranks. To me, the next question is whether it can maintain this bump after the holidays pr when this sale ends.

I'm wondering when there will be enough outside data to start reporting numbers. I also expected something from Paizo touting 3rd quarter sales with the new edition, but I can't find anything official.

Signs point to there not being much to your in particular...

Mistwell · Dec 5, 2019

gss000 said:
I thought there might be a black Friday sale that is lifting all games. Cthulu also has some ones on the list.

Looking at the week of Amazon sales numbers, this sale got Pathfinder out of the #4000 to 5000 "channel" it's been stuck in for a few weeks into the 2900 to 3500 ranks. To me, the next question is whether it can maintain this bump after the holidays pr when this sale ends.

I'm wondering when there will be enough outside data to start reporting numbers. I also expected something from Paizo touting 3rd quarter sales with the new edition, but I can't find anything official.

Back down to #4227 now.

gss000 · Dec 7, 2019

Mistwell said:
Back down to #4227 now.

Putting rough numbers into a sales estimator, this would be a 10 to 12% drop in sales. I don't know enough to say whether that is a big deal to Paizo or not. Overall, since it seems we're at a little bit of a stable place, today's sales number is about 50% of where it was after launch when it was selling more than 5th ed for a very short time.

Recently, I've been looking at how 1st ed is still doing compared to 2nd as a way to gauge enthusiasm for switching to the new edition. Using the various rank trackers, it looks like the 1st ed core rulebook sales are 75% of the 2nd ed core rulebook. Compare that to 4th ed D&D, which is at 24% of 5th ed's sales. Looks to me like Paizo has an enthusiasm gap to work on, which I don't find surprising based on the Paizo's history of drawing in gamers who didn't want to change from 3rd ed D&D. Hopefully, the sales percentage drops or else the old edition could cannibalize the new edition's sales.

Caveat as always that Amazon data is proxy for overall sales since we don't have any knowledge of Paizo direct sales or overall hobby store sales.

Green Onceler · Dec 7, 2019

gss000 said:
Using the various rank trackers, it looks like the 1st ed core rulebook sales are 75% of the 2nd ed core rulebook. Compare that to 4th ed D&D, which is at 24% of 5th ed's sales. Looks to me like Paizo has an enthusiasm gap to work on

That's interesting. Do those 1e Core Rulebook sales include the Pocket Edition?

Completely anecdotally, I am noticing a distinct enthusiasm gap for the new edition in my immediate circles. I play with one group face to face here in Japan. It consists of 6 members, none of whom have bought any 2e product or show any interest in doing so. I also GM a diverse international group online. I am not sure if any of them have bought any product, but none seem interested in the new edition. It rarely gets brought up.

No negativity from me toward the new game. I'm sure the new game would be fun if I played. Just like 5e is fun when I play. But, I just have no interest in buying a whole new library of books when I am generally satisfied with my large existing P1 library. I'd rather buy Starfinder books than P2.

gss000 · Dec 7, 2019

Green Onceler said:
That's interesting. Do those 1e Core Rulebook sales include the Pocket Edition?

Thanks for the question. Actually, that was for the pocked edition only. The non-pocket version sells less than the pocket version. However, when you combine the two, 1st ed core versions sell about 15% more right now than 2nd ed core based on what Amazon sales rank to sales amount calculators say, assuming that is at least ballpark accurate.

jib916 · Dec 7, 2019

To be fair (and as mentioned before in the thread by multiple people) Amazon is a not the greatest gauge to estimate sales / interest in Pathfinder.

One of the reasons 5e is doing so well on amazon, is because it is the main outlet to purchase it online.

Want to buy a 5e book directly from WOTC? You can't. You can buy a PF2book from Paizo.com however, in fact you can get a subscription and have them ship you one every time they publish one.

What a digital, pdf copy of a 5e book (Not a online database, like Curse's DND Beyond)? You can't You can get all of the Pf1/Pf2 books in pdf from Paizo.com

I guess what I am saying is that if you are a Pathfinder/Paizo fan, there is a large chunk of the market that is buying them online direct instead of amazon, where for 5e , it is the main outlet of sales.

darjr · Dec 7, 2019

No. This keeps coming up. 5e is ALSO just as available from other sources.

we’ve been down this road. We actually checked the number of forum users on Paizos site that were subscribers, subscribers used to get a badge, and amazon sales for Paizo 1st edition was many times higher than that for the core book. But yes, that’s an estimate and things could be different now. Amazon sales rank ALSO jives with other sources of “sales” or rankings.

And saying that Amazon is the main source for 5e is a claim that’ll need proof.

teitan · Dec 7, 2019

Amazon also offers a deep discount that Paizo does not. Get the core book for 60 or for 45? Sometimes lower?

I think P2 will be a slow burn success myself.