D&D 5E Bow vs. Crossbow

[Leatherhead]

There is one tangible benefit to using a bow.

You can use woodcarving tools to craft an entire quivers worth of arrows as part of a long rest, or 5 of them during a short rest.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

You are correct! I thought I was on Beyond but was instead on something else with incorrect info.

Ignore my previous points.

 

[Charlaquin]

What are you suggesting? Crossbows and bows both get to add Dexterity to hit and Damage. The Finesse property isn't a ranged thing, it's for melee weapons.

There’s actually nothing in the rules that says a ranged weapon can’t have the Finesse property, and in fact, darts have it. The precise wording of the effects of the Finesse property is: “When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your strength or dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.”

So, darts can be used with the wielder’s choice of Strength or Dexterity, and I am suggesting that to give bows a leg up over crossbows, you give them this property as well.

In 3E, ranged weapons didn't get an ability modifier to damage, except for composite bows, but that damage required strength. They still used Dex to hit.

Perhaps phrasing it as “going the 3e route” obfuscated my meaning. My intent was to suggest that, if simply giving shotbows and longbows Finesse seems like it would make them too powerful, you could consider leaving them unchanged and adding “composite shortbow” and “composite longbow” to the weapons table, which you could leave identical to their non-composite counterparts, but with the addition of the Finesse property.

 

[neogod22]

I’d suggest giving bows the Finesse property. A crossbow is drawn by mechanical power, so the effectiveness of a shot is all about precision (dexterity). But a bow is drawn by manpower alone, and how much damage you can do with one has as much to do with the draw weight you can handle (Strength). Realistically bows would have a minimum strength and a damage bonus that scales accordingly, but for simplicity’s sake, I think just slapping Finesse on them should suffice. Or go the 3.x route and have more expensive “compound” versions with Finesse.

There's no reason to slap finesse on them since ALL ranged weapons use DEX anyway.

 

[ccs]

There's no reason to slap finesse on them since ALL ranged weapons use DEX anyway.

The point of doing that would be to allow the bow user to use their str mod instead of dex.

 

[neogod22]

There’s actually nothing in the rules that says a ranged weapon can’t have the Finesse property, and in fact, darts have it. The precise wording of the effects of the Finesse property is: “When making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use your choice of your strength or dexterity modifier for the attack and damage rolls. You must use the same modifier for both rolls.”

So, darts can be used with the wielder’s choice of Strength or Dexterity, and I am suggesting that to give bows a leg up over crossbows, you give them this property as well.


Perhaps phrasing it as “going the 3e route” obfuscated my meaning. My intent was to suggest that, if simply giving shotbows and longbows Finesse seems like it would make them too powerful, you could consider leaving them unchanged and adding “composite shortbow” and “composite longbow” to the weapons table, which you could leave identical to their non-composite counterparts, but with the addition of the Finesse property.

The reason darts have the finesse property, is because they are melee weapons with the thrown property. Thrown weapons be default use STR

 

[mach1.9pants]

Edit. This is in reply to finesse, on a ranged weapon, bizarrely allowing strength to be used instead of dex - a nifty idea imo

Yeah and real longbowmen were physical beasts, with big muscle formation and resultant bone growth

Many people think of this when talking archers

I think of this!

 

[Charlaquin]

There's no reason to slap finesse on them since ALL ranged weapons use DEX anyway.

What @ccs said.

The reason darts have the finesse property, is because they are melee weapons with the thrown property. Thrown weapons be default use STR

Darts are absolutely not melee weapons. They’re literally under the heading “simple ranged weapons” on the weapons table. If they did not have the Finesse property, you would not be able to use Strength to attack with them because they are not melee weapons with the thrown property. They are ranged weapons with the thrown property.

 

[Coroc]

What @ccs said.


Darts are absolutely not melee weapons. They’re literally under the heading “simple ranged weapons” on the weapons table. If they did not have the Finesse property, you would not be able to use Strength to attack with them because they are not melee weapons with the thrown property. They are ranged weapons with the thrown property.

Well but people tend to think of darts like used in the game at the pub,
they are not, instead they are in fact short spears. You could melee a bit using them in an emergency.
Obviously the romans invented and used them, google plumbata. From the plumbus = lead (Pb) and what I see in the google pictures and already read somewhere I conclude that these were weighted with lead.

 

[Charlaquin]

Well but people tend to think of darts like used in the game at the pub,
they are not, instead they are in fact short spears. You could melee a bit using them in an emergency.
Obviously the romans invented and used them, google plumbata. From the plumbus = lead (Pb) and what I see in the google pictures and already read somewhere I conclude that these were weighted with lead.

Historically, yes, that's what the weapon called a "dart" is. But frankly, that's better represented by the javelin, as they are basically just fletched javelins. The weapon by the name of "dart" in the D&D 5e weapons table though, can't be used in melee except as an improvised weapon, because it's ranged.