D&D 5E Bow vs. Crossbow

[neogod22]

What @ccs said.


Darts are absolutely not melee weapons. They’re literally under the heading “simple ranged weapons” on the weapons table. If they did not have the Finesse property, you would not be able to use Strength to attack with them because they are not melee weapons with the thrown property. They are ranged weapons with the thrown property.

I understand that, but that's actually wrong. You can do just as much damage stabbing someone with a dart as you can with throwing it. Also l, a dart does not count as or use ammunition. Those are 2 distinct qualities of real ranged weapons. You can make the argument that darts are in the ranged category because in 99% of the use case, they are thrown, but that shouldn't be the defining factor.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The "thrown" weapons category generally seems to be "melee weapons that can be thrown", with designed-to-be-thrown weapons in "ranged".

 

[Quartz]

So, before getting Extra Attack, what is the advantage to using a Bow over a Crossbow?

You can fire a crossbow one-handed. You still need both hands to reload, of course, but it means that your PC can make a ranged attack before closing.

 

[Charlaquin]

I understand that, but that's actually wrong. You can do just as much damage stabbing someone with a dart as you can with throwing it.

Yes, you can, because when you use a ranged weapon to make a melee attack, the damage die is a d4, which is the same as the dart’s normal damage die. They are considered improvised when you do this, however, which might be relevant for the purposes of, say, the Tavern Brawler Feat.

Also l, a dart does not count as or use ammunition. Those are 2 distinct qualities of real ranged weapons.

No, it is a quality of the Ammunition property.

You can make the argument that darts are in the ranged category because in 99% of the use case, they are thrown, but that shouldn't be the defining factor.

I am not. I am making the case that they are in the ranged category because they are under the ranged weapons heading in the table. This is in contrast to javelins, which are under the melee weapons heading in the table. Javelins are not considered improvised and use their normal damage die when used to make a melee weapon attack. They also add Strength to hit and damage of both ranged and melee weapon attacks made with them, since they are melee weapons and lack the Finesse property.

 

[Charlaquin]

The "thrown" weapons category generally seems to be "melee weapons that can be thrown", with designed-to-be-thrown weapons in "ranged".

Not exactly, because javelins are designed to be thrown and they’re melee weapons.

EDIT: Also, fun fact, any melee weapon can be thrown at range 20/60, it just counts as improvised if it lacks the Thrown property.

You can fire a crossbow one-handed. You still need both hands to reload, of course, but it means that your PC can make a ranged attack before closing.

Nope. They have the two-handed property, which says “This weapon requires two hands when you attack with it.” This is in contrast to, say, slings, which lack the two-handed property, and so can be used to attack with only one hand, but do require a free hand to reload because of the Ammunition property, or darts, which lack either property and can therefore be used to attack with only one hand and do not need to be loaded.

Of course, when you attack is the only time a two-handed weapon actually requires two hands, so there’s no reason you can’t take one hand off the crossbow and use it to do something else between attacks. But that’s also true of bows. And Greatswords.

 

[Dausuul]

Even an archery based warrior is better using a crossbow until level 5, but at that point investing in Crossbow Master is a good feat choice.

Only if you plan to use a hand crossbow. But that's a problem with Crossbow Mastery being overpowered, not with crossbows in general (hand crossbows are inferior to both shortbows and longbows unless you have the feat). Also, it limits you to an effective range of 30 feet.

If not using a hand crossbow, you are better off using that ASI to boost your Dexterity. +1 to damage from using a crossbow is strictly worse than +1 to damage, +1 to hit, +1 AC, +1 initiative, and +1 to Dex skills. And once you hit the cap, you've got a number of feat options (like Sharpshooter) which will do more for you than a measly +1 damage per attack.

 

[Quartz]

They have the two-handed property,

Hand crossbows do not.

 

[Charlaquin]

Hand crossbows do not.

Ahh, quite right.

 

[Umbran]

The "thrown" weapons category generally seems to be "melee weapons that can be thrown", with designed-to-be-thrown weapons in "ranged".

Ah. But "thrown" isn't a category. It is a property of the weapon.

I think the actual text of the property may be helpful: "If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon. For example, if you throw a handaxe, you use your Strength, but if you throw a dagger, you can use either your Strength or your Dexterity, since the dagger has the finesse property. "

Note the "if". That explicitly means that not all thrown weapons are melee weapons.

The Dart is not a melee weapon. It is a ranged weapon with the thrown and finesse properties.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

As a ranged weapon, a dart uses dexterity by default. Giving it the "finesse" property means you can use strength or dexterity as your attack stat with it. The "thrown" property means you have to draw another dart to attack again. Hypothetically you could start the round with one in each hand and draw a third as part of your move, but after that you would struggle to make an additional attack, RAW.