D&D 5E Countering Rest Spells (Tiny Hut, Rope Trick, et al)

[Oofta]

Cool, brings the whole thing together.

Now, a significant issue some folks have with Da Hut is that it can be used by players to 'break' the 6-8 encounter work-day that theoretically balances both classes and encounter difficulties. In this example, there's no such work-day being established, in the first place, you had a series of no/single/trivial encounter days of travel, and a more nearly significant several-encounter day culminating in the Hut-siege.

One other note - not that I think it really changes tactics much - is that I use the alternate longer rest rules (short rest overnight, long rest several days). I also adjust spell durations so the hut would have lasted several days, long enough to get a long rest if they did nothing else. Somebody would have had to go out to empty the wizard's champerpot but otherwise they were relatively safe. I even gave them a survival check to see how well they could camouflage the hut. Once the first patrol attacked they (rightly) assumed that others had been notified of their presence.

So that's part of my way of dealing with overland travel, I know there are other options.

 

[Oofta]

I think we can both agree that lumber & carpentry equipment are not standard issue for a wilderness patrol & you've just declared that even modest effort in a place where supplies are to be expected should be phenomenally effective

It's things like this that you keep harping on which is why I don't bother. You don't need carpenter's tools. We built our raft with hatchets, some dead trees and excess twine. A temporary barricade could be made from a couple of old doors or tables, no engineering degree required.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's things like this that you keep harping on which is why I don't bother. You don't need carpenter's tools. We built our raft with hatchets, some dead trees and excess twine. A temporary barricade could be made from a couple of old doors or tables, no engineering degree required.

that sounds ridiculously makeshift given the effectiveness you are giving it.

 

[Tony Vargas]

also that " group of a couple of dozen hobgoblins to throw together a makeshift oversized shield in a couple of hours with plenty of resources" through that together quickly enough using resources they had on hand while doing a wilderness patrol* & had results effective enough to offset the fact that your PCs just safely completed a short rest,

Hobgoblins have long been described as disciplined and militaristic, if you think of them like Roman Legions, you're darn right they patrol with tools they can use to throw up temporary fortifications and the like.

One other note - not that I think it really changes tactics much - is that I use the alternate longer rest rules (short rest overnight, long rest several days). I also adjust spell durations so the hut would have lasted several days, long enough to get a long rest if they did nothing else.

Wow. That also substantially changes things.

 

[Asisreo]

At 5th-level, overland travel isn't typically dangerous enough to warrant interrupting their rests. You'll have, what? An owlbear or at worst a troll interrupting them? And for what? There isn't any advancement in plot with overland travel especially since characters can just hire a carriage for a relatively cheap amount and stay on the roads with hardly any encounters outside of bandits who are also trivial at that level.

If you require challenging players, have the environment too hostile to concentrate on a spell. The heat from the volcano is too powerful, the low oxygen at high altitudes make breathing too hard. Of course, you can't do these things in a forest or grassland environment but that means you should have the players explore the dangerous parts of wilderness and not just the Ranger's playground sections.

Even at 1st-level, goblins are going to have patrols because there's probably a hobgoblin in the lair and that hobgoblin knows enough strategy to know to put them on patrol. Granted, goblins themselves aren't disciplined enough to follow orders to the T, but they do flee at danger and will snitch when they can to live.

I don't know what a "Tucker's Kobold" is but if you're players are in a Kobold's lair, they'll be slowed down by the fact that the Kobold's tunnels are, like, 3ft. By 3 ft and they'll have to squeeze through unless they're a gnome or something.

 

[tetrasodium]

Hobgoblins have long been described as disciplined and militaristic, if you think of them like Roman Legions, you're darn right they patrol with tools they can use to throw up temporary fortifications and the like.

Wow. That also substantially changes things.

important fact is that they used those tools to gather/prepare building materials and despite being absurdly mkeshift it was extremely effective
@Asisreo tuckers kobolds date back to the dawn of time in terms of d&d's history. There's a time & place for that kind of thing sure, but a disturbing percentage of oofta's advice amounts to leveraging that style of play. I linked to a pdf on wotc's site describing them, enjoy

As to your "overland travel", just because FR doesn't have anywhere especially dangerous to explore outside after level 5 or so doesn't mean that no other setting does. There is also the critical fact that tiny hut does not require you to be outside, on ground capable of staking a tent, or anything else of that nature that might justify the overland travel is safe thing.

 

[Oofta]

that sounds ridiculously makeshift given the effectiveness you are giving it.

All it has to do is block arrows until they get close. A single layer of saplings a few inches in diameter would probably do it.

Hobgoblins have long been described as disciplined and militaristic, if you think of them like Roman Legions, you're darn right they patrol with tools they can use to throw up temporary fortifications and the like.

Yeah, the Romans would stake out and build a "marching fort" with a palisade every night if they were in enemy territory.

 

[tetrasodium]

Hobgoblins have long been described as disciplined and militaristic, if you think of them like Roman Legions, you're darn right they patrol with tools they can use to throw up temporary fortifications and the like.

Wow. That also substantially changes things.

important fact is that they used those tools to gather/prepare building materials and despite being absurdly mkeshift it was extremely effective

All it has to do is block arrows until they get close. A single layer of saplings a few inches in diameter would probably do it.



Yeah, the Romans would stake out and build a "marching fort" with a palisade every night if they were in enemy territory.

Remember what I said about setting precidents & calvin ball?... Congratulations you just declared that half or three quarters cover grants the benefit of total cover.

 

[LordEntrails]

Even in this example you set precedent that a makeshift siege engine/portable wall can be thrown together rather quickly to result in a very functional creation.

" group of a couple of dozen hobgoblins to throw together a makeshift oversized shield in a couple of hours with plenty of resources" through that together quickly enough using resources they had on hand while doing a wilderness patrol*

important fact is that they used those tools to gather/prepare building materials and despite being absurdly mkeshift it was extremely effective

You do know that the Roman army built a fortified camp EVERY night it traveled right? Even smaller units built fortifications every night, and that's after a 20 Roman mile march. These fortifications included ditches and pike walls to provide cover from archers and break up cavalry charges. Fortified Camps | Tools of War | The Roman Military

Expecting hobgoblins to do essentially the same is not unreasonable. Expecting any organized unit not to carry trenching tools, axes, and rope is perhaps more absurd than expecting them to only be carrying weapons and water and a pouch with a few coins each.

The repeated assertion that the spell is not a problem, at all, seems at odds with that goal. But maybe that's not really you, so much as thread-reply-cycles and topic drift.

Maybe it depends on how you define a problem?

Now, a significant issue some folks have with Da Hut is that it can be used by players to 'break' the 6-8 encounter work-day that theoretically balances both classes and encounter difficulties. In this example, there's no such work-day being established, in the first place, you had a series of no/single/trivial encounter days of travel, and a more nearly significant several-encounter day culminating in the Hut-siege.

I don't think Oofta ever said the hut does not present issues. It's just that (depending on how you define it) and issue is not a problem.

For me, a party that uses a hut to stop after 3 encounters just means they have 9-11 the next day.

 

[Tony Vargas]

important fact is that they used those tools to gather/prepare building materials and despite being absurdly mkeshift it was extremely effective

Sounds perfectly plausible. More plausible than spell in question anyway - I mean, what kind of a name is Leomund, anyway? ...and, oh, er, a forcefield dome maybe isn't the most fantasy-appropriate thing ever.

I mean:

Disciplined ancient/medieval soldiers putting together a mantlet in the woods.

vs

Old man mumbles over a glass bead, and a force-field effect straight out of ST:tOS appears around him & his buddies, rendering them invulnerable for 8 hrs (or, in this case, several days?)