ICv2's Latest Quarterly Chart: D&D Top, But PF2 Is Strong

The latest chart from ICv2 is up! This represents hobby channel sales through Summer 2019, which is May-August. ICv2 compiles these charts by interviewing retailers and distributors.

Dungeons & Dragons comes in first, followed by Pathfinder, Shadowrun 6E, Vampire 5th Edition, and then the current Star Wars RPG from FFG.

An interesting note is that core D&D books are not growing in hobby stores, because they struggle to compete with Amazon and WotC directly. Pathfinder 2E did better than expected (both of those statements came from hobby retailers). Interestingly, though it's May-August, PF2 only came out in August. I'm not sure how that affects things. You can read the full article at the link, but it's behind a paywall.

Last time (Spring 2019), Pathfinder was right at the bottom of the chart (as expected after a new edition is announced). Interestingly, Starfinder has dropped right off.

You can see all the charts in one big table going back to 2004 here.

 

[ddaley]

My two tables put a lot of effort into Starfinder but both groups found, they just didn't like it. I am not suprised by the drop off.

I was really looking forward to Starfinder, because I have been wanting to play a d20 sci fi game. But, I just haven't been excited about the APs released. If they release an AP that I can get into, then we will likely try it. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to write my own adventures these days (though, I have been thinking about attempting said feat more and more lately)... especially for a new system.

I would also like to play a d20 based, post apocalyptic game too. I have been eyeing a couple to try. But, again, the availability of pre-made adventures doesn't seem to be there

 

[Bravesteel25]

My group has switched from 5E to PF2. I’ll be curious to see if that trend continues as the line picks up steam.

 

[univoxs]

I was really looking forward to Starfinder, because I have been wanting to play a d20 sci fi game. But, I just haven't been excited about the APs released. If they release an AP that I can get into, then we will likely try it. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or energy to write my own adventures these days (though, I have been thinking about attempting said feat more and more lately)... especially for a new system.

I would also like to play a d20 based, post apocalyptic game too. I have been eyeing a couple to try. But, again, the availability of pre-made adventures doesn't seem to be there

Honestly, I think d20 modern does a better job than starfinder still. Though Starfinders space combat is a little better. Easily adaptable to any other d20 game I think. We moved to Mongoose Travaller instead, and while not d20, it gives you all the crunch Starfinder felt like it lacked.

 

[Henry]

Our group pretty much dropped Starfinder in favor of both PF2 and 5E. If they ever revise Starfinder, I hope something changes about the “leveled” weapon system and its damage dice - it personally feels like the chunkiest part of an otherwise pretty smooth system. I still think damage dice should be a function of level, at least 50/50, because while I can plausibly buy a handgun doing two or three dice of damage more than a weaker model (think .22 vs .50 magnum) having a sliding scale that goes from 1d4 to freaking 8d10 drives me nuts. I get, say, a .22 rifle being very different from a .50 cal anti-personnel weapon, but the damage for level 15 to 20 weapons feels like the guns shouldn’t be person-portable!

Anyway, it’s a personal peeve, not necessarily a serious system flaw. I do think it will likely eventually get revisited with some PF2 mechanical tweaks, especially if sales actually do drop off.

 

[TrippyHippy]

My view on Starfinder is that it only really had an appeal to existing Pathfinder players. There are already a number of science fiction games out there (I play Traveller myself), so aside from it’s own idiosyncrasies there wasn’t much to create an appeal for anybody who wasn’t already wedded to the system. Like I say, I think it served as a sort of placeholder for Paizo as they went through the development of Pathfinder 2. Now that it’s arrived, Starfinder will probably just fade away a bit.

 

[jedijon]

It could be - considering this is survey data - that the respondents themselves are the ones lumping Pathfinder brands together.

So either we’ve got Paizo fanboys jumping ship, game store owners separating product into WotC / the rest shelves...or perhaps opinion-based-sales ‘data’ is just a particular bee-under-bonnet for some...

 

[BrokenTwin]

I'm saddened but not surprised by the fact that Shadow of the Demon Lord isn't on the list. It might be mentioned behind the paywall, but I'm not signing up to a site for a single article.

StarFinder being a splash in the pan doesn't surprise me, as it really felt more like a testing ground for PF2 concepts than something that was meant to be its own thing. But, as others have mentioned, it's possible it's being lumped together under the Pathfinder label, which would both mask its presence and artificially inflate PF2's presence.

Still, PF2 is clearly gaining traction, despite the naysayers. And while it's definitely not my thing to GM, I'm hoping it grows enough to provide some solid competition to D&D. More diversity in the public eye of the hobby will always be a good thing.

 

[Ghost2020]

My view on Starfinder is that it only really had an appeal to existing Pathfinder players. There are already a number of science fiction games out there (I play Traveller myself), so aside from it’s own idiosyncrasies there wasn’t much to create an appeal for anybody who wasn’t already wedded to the system. Like I say, I think it served as a sort of placeholder for Paizo as they went through the development of Pathfinder 2. Now that it’s arrived, Starfinder will probably just fade away a bit.

Much like 1st ed Alternity was for D&D, to some degree. No, Alternity was not D&D in space, but some people seemed to think it was that. Whereas Starfinder unabashedly embraces the 'D&D in space' and it's still met with middling enthusiasm.

 

[JFranklin3000]

Much like 1st ed Alternity was for D&D, to some degree. No, Alternity was not D&D in space, but some people seemed to think it was that. Whereas Starfinder unabashedly embraces the 'D&D in space' and it's still met with middling enthusiasm.

I think we really need to update the post to say there were no Starfinder rulebooks released in the quarter in question. We won't actually know anything until the next report comes out for Q3.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I'm saddened but not surprised by the fact that Shadow of the Demon Lord isn't on the list. It might be mentioned behind the paywall, but I'm not signing up to a site for a single article.

Has it ever been on the list? Note that the sales of a game aren’t determined by whether a website chooses to cover it or not. There isn’t a conspiracy here - it’s just not a mainstream seller.