D&D 5E House rule impact: Replacing stat mod with proficiency bonus

[TwoSix]

So I'm considering the following house rules (wording still needs to be tightened up):

"When you make an attack with a weapon you are proficient with, you may use your proficiency bonus in place of your stat modifier for attack bonus and damage bonus if your proficiency bonus is higher."

"When you use your Spellcasting feature, you may use your proficiency bonus in place of your spellcasting modifier for spell attack bonuses and spell save DCs if your proficiency bonus is higher".

I expect the general impact to be less of a focus on maximizing stats, since you're probably not going to have more than a +1 bonus from a stat as compared to the level-equivalent proficiency bonus. So, hopefully, more focus on taking feats that fit concepts, and focus on raising stats that fit concepts.

Are there any negative impacts here that I'm not thinking of? I use a lot of monsters and spells that require Int, Cha, and Str saves so my players know they can't focus on just raising the 3 "big saves". People might boost Con first, I'm trying to decide if that's a problem or not since they'll be hurting their skills to do so.

 

[Umbran]

I expect the general impact to be less of a focus on maximizing stats, since you're probably not going to have more than a +1 bonus from a stat as compared to the level-equivalent proficiency bonus.

I think you'll still see the same stress on maximizing the character's primary attack stat. It is pretty easy to have a +4 stat bonus at level 1, and very easy by level 4, but you don't get a +4 proficiency bonus until level 9. This variant really only makes secondary options a little more palatable.

Are there any negative impacts here that I'm not thinking of?

Well, by level 9, everyone has pretty high attack and damage bonuses for any form of attack they are proficient with. The wizard will have +4 to hit and damage with their quarterstaff, and so on. This isn't so much negative, as a thing you have to be prepared for.

 

[TwoSix]

I think you'll still see the same stress on maximizing the character's primary attack stat. It is pretty easy to have a +4 stat bonus at level 1, and very easy by level 4, but you don't get a +4 proficiency bonus until level 9. This variant really only makes secondary options a little more palatable.

Yea, that's the point I'm definitely most curious on. I, personally, hate the thought of using a character resource on something that would eventually be superseded by my natural character progression. But I don't think everyone thinks like me (at least, I certainly hope not) so I'm not sure how common that thought would be.

Ideally, I want the players to not feel the need to be put their low-level ASIs and racial bonuses into primary stats, but still derive some benefit from doing so.

Well, by level 9, everyone has pretty high attack and damage bonuses for any form of attack they are proficient with. The wizard will have +4 to hit and damage with their quarterstaff, and so on. This isn't so much negative, as a thing you have to be prepared for.

Totally OK with that. I understand it's a net buff to the PCs, and if I get the wizards to wade into melee, I've already won as the DM.

 

[BluejayJunior]

It's interesting. It may or may not have the effect you are looking for, depending on your players. Some might see it as needing to maximize starting stats and then not putting any more effort into it. But you can also get to a +5 bonus quicker using ASIs than you can waiting for proficiency to get that high, which might not change how they level up. They might pick up feats that make them more powerful, but that no longer have the downside of possibly not increasing their attack bonus.
I think it really depends on how your players approach the game. It might be best to propose the concept to them and ask if they would change if they would change their character designs with this change.

 

[Umbran]

Yea, that's the point I'm definitely most curious on. I, personally, hate the thought of using a character resource on something that would eventually be superseded by my natural character progression. But I don't think everyone thinks like me (at least, I certainly hope not) so I'm not sure how common that thought would be.

I think this may be a bit dependent on the group's playstyle. Your group may differ, but the commonly accepted point is that high level play is kind of rare. The proficiency bonus will become equivalent at level 9 and up. Is this game even going to last that long? Even if the game lasts to level 20, are they going to wait for half the game to go by to get that bonus? When they can plunk down a bit of resources now?

Also remember that the game leans to having your primary attack stat also be the stat of many of your relevant skills, which they are also going to want. That primary stat is not a one-trick-pony.

 

[DND_Reborn]

LOL I would love this! I have a build up to 7th level I would enjoy playing under this idea!

Here is the summary:

STR 10, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 9, WIS 13, CHA 13 (using point-buy)
Variant human with Skilled Feat
Rogue (Scout) 3/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1/ Bard (Lore) 3
Expertise in Arcana, Nature, Religion, Survial plus 4 other skills
Proficiency in DEX and INT saves (so INT dump is not an issue)
With CON 16 has +3 to hit points per level (59 hp on average)

Using your idea, at level 7 he would be:
+6 with all skills, +9 with expertise skills
+6 on attack rolls with STR or DEX and +3 to damage with simple weapons and select martial weapons

If such a build is okay with you and your table, then I don't see any issues with your idea.

 

[Laurefindel]

So I'm considering the following house rules (wording still needs to be tightened up):

"When you make an attack with a weapon you are proficient with, you may use your proficiency bonus in place of your stat modifier for attack bonus and damage bonus if your proficiency bonus is higher."

"When you use your Spellcasting feature, you may use your proficiency bonus in place of your spellcasting modifier for spell attack bonuses and spell save DCs if your proficiency bonus is higher".

So simply put, you have 14 in all your stats at level 1 for things with which you are proficient. At 5th level, it's the equivalent to have 16 in all your stats. At 9th level, its like having all 18s. At 13th level you've got all 20s and at 17th level (granting that the campaign makes it there), everyone has 22 everywhere.

Possible implications (both pros and cons)
People will aim to be proficient in as many things as possible.
Dump stats are less consequential with proficiencies.
Because it grants hit points and ties to very few proficiencies, Constitution becomes the one stat you need to boost early into the game.
Other than Con, high stats matter much less except in early levels.
Average stats aren't worth much. Expect "optimised" builds with high Constitution, high primary stat, and as low as possible in pretty much everything else. Standard array would be preferable to point-buy in that case.
It could enable more versatile roll-stats-in-order character generation.
Stats become more guidelines for personality/physical attribute than mechanical attributes.
Some formerly "low priority" feats become competitive.
Feats become competitive vs ability increase.
Comparatively, the gap between proficient and non-proficient deepens as the characters gain levels.

[edit] I assumed ability checks and saving throws would benefit from this as well, but it wasn't explicitely stated in your OP. Some of these implications may be overstated.

 

[TwoSix]

[edit] I assumed ability checks and saving throws would benefit from this as well, but it wasn't explicitely stated in your OP. Some of these implications may be overstated.

Yes, this is explicitly for attacks and spells only. Saves and skills do not benefit.

 

[TwoSix]

LOL I would love this! I have a build up to 7th level I would enjoy playing under this idea!

Here is the summary:

STR 10, DEX 14, CON 16, INT 9, WIS 13, CHA 13 (using point-buy)
Variant human with Skilled Feat
Rogue (Scout) 3/ Cleric (Knowledge) 1/ Bard (Lore) 3
Expertise in Arcana, Nature, Religion, Survial plus 4 other skills
Proficiency in DEX and INT saves (so INT dump is not an issue)
With CON 16 has +3 to hit points per level (59 hp on average)

Using your idea, at level 7 he would be:
+6 with all skills, +9 with expertise skills
+6 on attack rolls with STR or DEX and +3 to damage with simple weapons and select martial weapons

If such a build is okay with you and your table, then I don't see any issues with your idea.

Skills are a little off (they still add stat mod) but yea, pretty much. The “trained in every skill” build is pretty fun (I played a version before).

 

[Laurefindel]

Yes, this is explicitly for attacks and spells only. Saves and skills do not benefit.

Then characters would hesitate more before dumping everything.

I think it would put a lot less stress on maxing your primary abilities. Too much? I don't know, but cool things happen when players don't feel like they have to max their primes.