D&D as humanocetric ... or not?

[PsyzhranV2]

I'm pretty sure this guy did advocate for dnd as therapy:

Fecking Christ, that's not what I meant at all. I sleep in this morning and come back to this SNAFU of a thread...

I never advocated for tabletop roleplaying to become a replacement for qualified psychiatric and therapeutic counseling. If you're clinically depressed, or you're having anxiety attacks due to the pressures of work, or if a loved one just died and you're having trouble dealing with it, go get professional help. We clear on that? Good.

The kinds of issues that roleplaying games can serve as an escape or a release valve for, the kinds of issues I was talking about aren't those kinds of abrupt crises or deviations from a healthy state of mind. They're systemic realities, facts of life that usually aren't soulcrushing enough to be debilitating, but they are annoying and aggravating enough to cause distress and brew resentment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not common to go see a cognitive behavioural therapist or solely to complain about being poor and with little opportunities for advancement, is it?

Now, what about a narrative about a party of peasants, workers, and scholars returning home after earning fame and fortune fighting monsters, and then using that newfound reputation to instigate a revolt against the ruling merchant class of their city and installing a new government that is more equitable to the city's lowest classes? Maybe one of the characters was a street urchin with very strong opinions about the aristocracy, and their player has been in not identical but similar situations and holds similar views. Is that campaign arc a therapy session? I don't think so, I'd probably be going to my trade union meeting or go volunteer with a group helping the homeless befoee going to a therapist. But said campaign arc can be escapist due to its emotional resonance.

Tying everything back to the question of humanocentrism in campaign settings, the example @doctorbadwolf was of somebody "playing an “ugly” race and either getting to play in a world where people mostly don’t care how he looks, or where he can do something about the naughty words that do try to bully (or attack, or discriminate) him for his appearance". Now personally, to make the example hit harder, instead of the somebody in that example being "merely" ugly (though discrimination based on looks still is bad), what if they're an ethnic minority, or a woman in a male-dominated field, or transgender and not perfectly passing, or a visible religious minority by way of their dress; you name it. Such people receive stares and whispers behind their back, are often mistrusted and feared, and unfortunately do suffer violence and insult, not just on the street but in the workplace, from the institutions that are supposedly there to protect them, or in the worst cases even from their own family.

Ever wonder why tieflings are so popular these days?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

The kinds of issues that roleplaying games can serve as an escape or a release valve for, the kinds of issues I was talking about aren't those kinds of abrupt crises or deviations from a healthy state of mind. They're systemic realities, facts of life that usually aren't soulcrushing enough to be debilitating, but they are annoying and aggravating enough to cause distress and brew resentment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not common to go see a cognitive behavioural therapist or solely to complain about being poor and with little opportunities for advancement, is it?

If someone is having financial or career related problems, D&D isn't the answer. That person should be out there working a second job - hopefully one with better opportunity for advancement - or else improving his or her skills.

Tying everything back to the question of humanocentrism in campaign settings, the example @doctorbadwolf was of somebody "playing an “ugly” race and either getting to play in a world where people mostly don’t care how he looks, or where he can do something about the naughty words that do try to bully (or attack, or discriminate) him for his appearance". Now personally, to make the example hit harder, instead of the somebody in that example being "merely" ugly (though discrimination based on looks still is bad), what if they're an ethnic minority, or a woman in a male-dominated field, or transgender and not perfectly passing, or a visible religious minority by way of their dress; you name it. Such people receive stares and whispers behind their back, are often mistrusted and feared, and unfortunately do suffer violence and insult, not just on the street but in the workplace, from the institutions that are supposedly there to protect them, or in the worst cases even from their own family.

If someone comes to my game talking about ethnic minorities, feminism, trandenderism, or religion, I'd show that person the door. I don't want that in my game, my free time, or my personal life.

Being an minority = cool and unique. B****ing about it isn't.

 

[Zardnaar]

Fecking Christ, that's not what I meant at all. I sleep in this morning and come back to this SNAFU of a thread...

I never advocated for tabletop roleplaying to become a replacement for qualified psychiatric and therapeutic counseling. If you're clinically depressed, or you're having anxiety attacks due to the pressures of work, or if a loved one just died and you're having trouble dealing with it, go get professional help. We clear on that? Good.

The kinds of issues that roleplaying games can serve as an escape or a release valve for, the kinds of issues I was talking about aren't those kinds of abrupt crises or deviations from a healthy state of mind. They're systemic realities, facts of life that usually aren't soulcrushing enough to be debilitating, but they are annoying and aggravating enough to cause distress and brew resentment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's not common to go see a cognitive behavioural therapist or solely to complain about being poor and with little opportunities for advancement, is it?

Now, what about a narrative about a party of peasants, workers, and scholars returning home after earning fame and fortune fighting monsters, and then using that newfound reputation to instigate a revolt against the ruling merchant class of their city and installing a new government that is more equitable to the city's lowest classes? Maybe one of the characters was a street urchin with very strong opinions about the aristocracy, and their player has been in not identical but similar situations and holds similar views. Is that campaign arc a therapy session? I don't think so, I'd probably be going to my trade union meeting or go volunteer with a group helping the homeless befoee going to a therapist. But said campaign arc can be escapist due to its emotional resonance.

Tying everything back to the question of humanocentrism in campaign settings, the example @doctorbadwolf was of somebody "playing an “ugly” race and either getting to play in a world where people mostly don’t care how he looks, or where he can do something about the naughty words that do try to bully (or attack, or discriminate) him for his appearance". Now personally, to make the example hit harder, instead of the somebody in that example being "merely" ugly (though discrimination based on looks still is bad), what if they're an ethnic minority, or a woman in a male-dominated field, or transgender and not perfectly passing, or a visible religious minority by way of their dress; you name it. Such people receive stares and whispers behind their back, are often mistrusted and feared, and unfortunately do suffer violence and insult, not just on the street but in the workplace, from the institutions that are supposedly there to protect them, or in the worst cases even from their own family.

Ever wonder why tieflings are so popular these days?

Seems odd to pick monstrous races in that situation if that's happening IRL.

Or if the DM doesn't include those races because they are the baddies.

I mean if one group views Tieflings as evil and they represent say Iuzs empire and the populace at large is going to treat them bad because of that reason seems odd someone would want to play one and expect to be treated differently.

Similar deal with Drow. My last DM just said no evil PCs or races. Didn't ask for clarification seemed obvious what they meant.

Tieflings get banned a lot because they do tend to attract troublemakers. Last one I saw she was stealing from the party, and orphanages and trying to act all innocent. Lynch the nearest Tiefling would have fixed a lot of "mysterious" incidents. She didn't like it when I stopped healing her.

 

[JeffB]

I don't mind character-focused games - just not backstory-focused games. Player-driven goals make for great games in my opinion. Backstories are generally full of dead weight.

Bingo- I'm going to start a thread about this shortly and how I like to approach this as a DM

 

[PsyzhranV2]

If someone is having financial or career related problems, D&D isn't the answer. That person should be out there working a second job - hopefully one with better opportunity for advancement - or else improving his or her skills

"Poor people shouldn't have hobbies."

That's a bougie take if I ever saw one.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

"Poor people shouldn't have hobbies."

That's a bougie take if I ever saw one.

Worked pretty well for me. Now I'm not poor and can have hobbies again. I also have a lot more skills than I did before.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm pretty sure this guy did advocate for dnd as therapy:

I should have placed a bet with someone, I knew exactly what you’d say.

No, that isn’t what that quote is advocating.

 

[Zardnaar]

"Poor people shouldn't have hobbies."

That's a bougie take if I ever saw one.

I was fairly poor when I started D&D. Apart from teenager type poor.

D&D is mostly a middle class and above hobby. No surprise when a book can be a week's rent.

 

[Morrus]

If someone comes to my game talking about ethnic minorities, feminism, trandenderism, or religion, I'd show that person the door. I don't want that in my game, my free time, or my personal life.

I’m ‘showing you the door’, because I don’t want ugly sentiments like these in my game, my free time, or my personal life, or indeed the community that I have built over 20 years based on inclusive principles. Don’t post in this thread again.

 

[5atbu]

I have an odd view of D&D races in that I don't think they matter for the most part. You could run Tyranny of Dragons, Curse of Strahd, or Rage of Demons with PCs of almost any race and it won't have a significant impact on the game.

I tend to agree, nearly all of them are humans with funny brows or pointy ears.. or short. Lots of fun tho'