D&D 5E Concentration mechanic can ruin plots in adventures

[Giltonio_Santos]

Concentration was good in eleminating the power creep we saw in 3.xed but we also lost a few possible plots in the process.

We can also say that in 5e Excapode would never be able to do it by himself. There must be some power behind him. He's certainly not working alone. In fact, maybe not even Excapode himself knows that someone or something is manipulating his actions to make him accomplish more than he should be able to. Concentration made us gain a few possible plots as well...

 

[PsyzhranV2]

NPCs don't follow PC character creation rules.

This is not like 3e.

They have whatever powers you want to give them.

Remember that PCs also have special powers that are represented by class abilities (and sometimes feats).

NPCs just have special powers that aren't covered in PC creation rules.

As @ad_hoc points out, NPCs don't follow the same rules as player characters. For example, my players just went up against Tamoachan's "martial artist adept," aka monks. But these monks could choose, on each of 3 hits, to stun, knock down, or disarm. Pretty powerful, and not an option for PCs.

Just have this guy use whatever charm mechanics you need: 24 hour duration, 1 week duration, no limits, and so on. He's a BBEG and he's going to have powers the PCs will never have.

As others have said. He's an NPC and has access to a spell that the PCs do not.

He has a minor artifact that allows him to charm multiple people. Unfortunately he also "hears" the voices of all the people he's charmed in a distorted way that makes him crazy.

He has special ritual to mimic the powers of a vampire which has also made him unstable.

He's forced a vampire to work for him, or the vampire is actually the real bad guy and the wizard is a pawn.

So on.

Counterpoint.

Niv-Mizzet is the only monster/creature in the entire 5e bestiary who is explicitly described in his statblock as being able to concentrate on 2 Concentration spells at once.

Therefore, assuming Niv-Mizzet is an exception, one could assume that the rule is monsters/NPCs, just like PCs, can only concentrate on one spell at a time.

 

[Leatherhead]

No wait. This entire thread is pointless because he would just use Geas instead of Charm Person.

 

[Oofta]

Counterpoint.

Niv-Mizzet is the only monster/creature in the entire 5e bestiary who is explicitly described in his statblock as being able to concentrate on 2 Concentration spells at once.

Therefore, assuming Niv-Mizzet is an exception, one could assume that the rule is monsters/NPCs, just like PCs, can only concentrate on one spell at a time.

Which just means he's using something other than a standard Charm spell. A Geas as @Salthorae said might work depending on how you interpret it. Or he just has a bauble of hypnosis or some other way of doing it.

 

[Helldritch]

Geas might do the trick. But it could prove a bit too obvious as the victims of the geas could work a bit around it by saying:" I have no choice! I have to fight you. It's out of my control" and zounds of other possibilies. Where as a charmed person, will try to stop you from harming his friend and will not try to justify himself.

As this gentleman said

We can also say that in 5e Excapode would never be able to do it by himself. There must be some power behind him. He's certainly not working alone. In fact, maybe not even Excapode himself knows that someone or something is manipulating his actions to make him accomplish more than he should be able to. Concentration made us gain a few possible plots as well...

This one has some flair in it. But it would again go against the basic assumption of what the adventure was about. But the geas spell has a bit more going for it. I'd just have to make Excapode a bit higher in levels... Thx. Solution found. (Still wonder why I did not think about it in the first place....)

 

[Tellerian Hawke]

I have only played 5E two or three times, so forgive my total newb-ness if this question seems off-base. My area of expertise is in the first 3 editions of the game. I don't have anything against the 4th and 5th editions, it's just that I stopped wanting to re-learn the game / buy new books past a certain point.

Can't he simply create a unique spell, that allows him to charm people for a given time, without concentration? I know the rules probably say something like "not having to concentrate on the spell would be unfair / unbalanced," but think of it like this:

If this were my campaign, I'd let the NPC have developed such a spell. And it would have had the following drawback: every so often, he'd need to make a Willpower save, and if he failed, he could either allow the spell to end, or keep it going by spending "brain cells" (and I would then make up some arbitrary system to explain what brain cells were, and how many a given character had). Thus, the explanation would become simple: Excapode kept spending brain cells to keep his spell going, until he ran out, and went quite literally insane.

In the spirit of "what the NPC can have, the player should also be able to have," at the completion of the adventure, the PCs could find the spell in his spell book, and then they would face a dilemma: use the spell for themselves, and possibly have one or more party members go insane, or rip that page out and destroy it, and gain xp for destroying an evil item.

Done.

Please, don't applaud. Just send money. Ha ha.

 

[abirdcall]

Counterpoint.

Niv-Mizzet is the only monster/creature in the entire 5e bestiary who is explicitly described in his statblock as being able to concentrate on 2 Concentration spells at once.

Therefore, assuming Niv-Mizzet is an exception, one could assume that the rule is monsters/NPCs, just like PCs, can only concentrate on one spell at a time.

NPCs are not limited to the spells and powers available to the players.

They can have and do anything the DM wants them to.

 

[Dausuul]

I'm not sure if the sentiment is just a conceptual backlash against the concrete way 3e NPC/monster rules could grind the game to a halt (believe me, I understand how much of a pain those statblocks could be), or some unconscious DM power trip, or just a bandwagon effect. In any event it completely rubs me the wrong way.

I think it can definitely be taken too far. To me, "NPCs don't have to follow the same rules as PCs" means a couple of things:

• First and foremost, I can stat up NPCs without having to go through the entire process of building a player character, because ain't nobody got time for that. I do not have to sweat the details of counting their skill proficiencies and adding up their stat points.
• If a given ability can be achieved by some combination of PC classes, I do not actually have to give the NPC that entire array of classes. This is primarily relevant with non-adventurers. The master weaver can have +15 to Weaver's Tools without being a 17th-level rogue.
• Sometimes, it means I give an NPC an ability which is just plain not in the Player's Handbook. In this case, however, I feel I should be able to explain how the NPC got that ability, and either have a reason within the game world why it is not available to PCs (are you the true-born heir of Kargorr, Demon Lord of the Seventy-Ninth Abysm? no? okay then), or have a way that PCs could theoretically obtain it, whether or not it's practical (study for 20 years, and we'll see you next campaign).

The ability to break the concentration rules would be an example of that third item. And since it is a big departure from the existing rules - concentration is one rule you really do not ever get to break as a PC - I would think long and hard before granting it.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

You may want to look for the Glamor Bard's Enthralling Performance and Mantle of Majesty.
Give him Goggles of Charming, and use (Mass)Suggestion a lot.

You could also add Voice of Authority from the Order Cleric.

 

[TwoSix]

Just as a general rule, most humanoid spellcasters in my campaigns are uber-specialists. They know a few spells, and often have access to special thematic abilities that suit their theme. But they don't use anything like the PC build rules. The explanation I usually give is that they have access to special PrC options that the PCs haven't discovered yet. I'm quite willing to let the PCs explore those options if they desire.