D&D 5E Reasonable Movement and Athletic Feats?

[doctorbadwolf]

So, I’ve read several places that a regionally competitive collegiate long jumper can do 19-20ft reliably, but doing so as a hero in dnd would require maximized Strength, or magic.

This, along with thinking about how far a Goliath could reasonably yeet a small character with and without a good windup, got me thinking about how it shouldn’t be too hard to work out a somewhat more reasonable set of numbers for feats of athleticism, and general movement, in 5e, without getting complicated and overly detailed and picky.

So, for instance, if we base reliable (no check) long jump on a “passive” athletics, do we get more reasonable, but still below what feels like a good showing? A 14 Strength medium character with no weirdness going on and Athletics prof could jump 14-20 ft, depending on level. Damn.

Okay...what about making that calculation explicitly the baseline, the “floor”? so, you can make a check to jump a greater distance, DC is the normal jump distance. If we make the jump the better of the floor and the check result, we are ranging from (at level 1-5) 14ft to 24ft. That seems fair, to me. Expertise will make that pretty incredible at high levels, but that’s absolutely fine, as is increasing magical jumps.

But what about high jump, and increasing speed beyond the normal limits, and determining other athletic feats? Lifting and other feats of strength?

 

[Tonguez]

Apparently “pretty good” Triple Jumpers are getting up to around 40ft
for High Jumpers 7+ft
Lifting 400lb (up to 800lb ) Squats

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Apparently “pretty good” Triple Jumpers are getting up to around 40ft
for High Jumpers 7+ft
Lifting 400lb (up to 800lb ) Squats

Yeah, and I’d want 20 stats and proficiency, and esp 20+expertise, to get ya well past what is possible IRL.

 

[ignu]

Doing an 800lb Backsquat and lifting an 800lbs off the ground are completely different things. A squat is taken from the rack, so it never leaves or touches the ground and is perfectly balanced. There are a lot of people who can squat 800lbs but no one can get an 800lb barbell from the ground onto their back.

And picking up a typical objects is a lot more difficult than using barbells, so compare them to strongman weights.

Compare The Mountain from Game of Thrones back-squatting 970lbs


And picking up a 450lb Atlas Stone


(And the atlas stone is still more balanced than most 450lb things you'd find lying around D&D)

Same thing with a long jump, a jumper most importantly carries no equipment, has shoes designed just for jumping, a perfectly clear runway to reach top speed AND they jump in such a way that they go prone.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Doing an 800lb Backsquat and lifting an 800lbs off the ground are completely different things. A squat is taken from the rack, so it never leaves or touches the ground and is perfectly balanced. There are a lot of people who can squat 800lbs but no one can get an 800lb barbell from the ground onto their back.

And picking up a typical objects is a lot more difficult than using barbells, so compare them to strongman weights.

Compare The Mountain from Game of Thrones back-squatting 970lbs


And picking up a 450lb Atlas Stone


(And the atlas stone is still more balanced than most 450lb things you'd find lying around D&D)

Same thing with a long jump, a jumper most importantly carries no equipment, has shoes designed just for jumping, a perfectly clear runway to reach top speed AND they jump in such a way that they go prone.

Here is the much more important thing.

it’s a game.

 

[Garthanos]

Adding proficiency to baseline jump was the thought I had for jumping. Its a pretty simple thing that doesn't require too much fidgety details and gets the numbers closer.

 

[DEFCON 1]

And all those real-life jumpers aren't wearing armor and full backpacks. So trying to emulate "real-life" with D&D numbers is kinda misleading.

 

[DND_Reborn]

So, I’ve read several places that a regionally competitive collegiate long jumper can do 19-20ft reliably, but doing so as a hero in dnd would require maximized Strength, or magic.

This, along with thinking about how far a Goliath could reasonably yeet a small character with and without a good windup, got me thinking about how it shouldn’t be too hard to work out a somewhat more reasonable set of numbers for feats of athleticism, and general movement, in 5e, without getting complicated and overly detailed and picky.

So, for instance, if we base reliable (no check) long jump on a “passive” athletics, do we get more reasonable, but still below what feels like a good showing? A 14 Strength medium character with no weirdness going on and Athletics prof could jump 14-20 ft, depending on level. Damn.

Okay...what about making that calculation explicitly the baseline, the “floor”? so, you can make a check to jump a greater distance, DC is the normal jump distance. If we make the jump the better of the floor and the check result, we are ranging from (at level 1-5) 14ft to 24ft. That seems fair, to me. Expertise will make that pretty incredible at high levels, but that’s absolutely fine, as is increasing magical jumps.

But what about high jump, and increasing speed beyond the normal limits, and determining other athletic feats? Lifting and other feats of strength?

Ok, I feel very qualified to chime in on this since I competed in track and field for nearly 10 years.

My personal bests:

22' 6" long jump (but this is with a 56' "approach")
5' 8" high jump (not great, but I am only 5' 7" myself, so I was always proud of it)
11.5 100-m sprint (again, not great, but pretty decent)
4 min. 23 sec. mile (again, not great but good IMO)

A "triple jump" is three "jumps" in a row, so not really useful in D&D unless you are literally hopping, skipping, and jumping over a creek or something.

The idea of long jumping with only a 10-20' approach is very limiting. You just can't get up to speed that well quickly enough to jump the 20+ feet many people think about.

For such a short approach, the simple passive system actually works pretty well IMO. My STR during the years of competing would have been a 12 probably, and with the minimum 10' approach required in RAW my "jump" would really have been a "stride or leap", and getting 12 feet would have been pretty easy.

To increase jump distances, I would allow a DC 10 STR (Athletics) check. If you succeed, you add your proficiency bonus to the distance. My proficiency in Athletics would have been maybe a +3 (I was good, won some events, etc, but hardly top collegiate or anything, and no where near professional). This would allow me to make a 15-foot "jump" with only a 10-foot approach, and I could see that happening back in the day.

Other options on a successful check would be:
Adding your STR modifier
Doubling the approach (so you can really "run" into the jump) could either lower the DC or double the proficiency bonus.
Double modifier/ proficiency for encumbrance less than STR (so 10 lbs or less for STR 10).

A final note: competitive jumping in school and sports lands in the "pit", a sand-filled landing zone and many jumpers land "near-prone", throwing themselves forward. Landing on a hard surface and on your feet, would drastically reduce the distance you could jump. Also, you aren't wearing a lot when you jump competitively, in D&D having traveling clothes, armor, and gear/weapons would severely hamper your jump.

That is why I think of jumps in D&D more like "leaps" or "strides".

 

[Garthanos]

Here is the much more important thing.

it’s a game.

Actual difference you want something of heroic scale.... those talking about sand pits and what shoes someone is wearing are not interested in that they are insisting on realistically mundane. And even without that there is magic - > How much does my perfectly fitting magic armor that conforms to my exact size weigh anyhow.... how much does it really impair. And the magic boots that are part of that suit are they really going to impair my landing or flexibility when I jump?

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yeah, and I’d want 20 stats and proficiency, and esp 20+expertise, to get ya well past what is possible IRL.

Well, the current world record for long jump is 29' 4.25".

Here is what I suggest...

First, jump distances should only count half the distance in movement IMO. That is the way our table plays it anyway.

Normal (passive): add proficiency bonus to Distance if you have proficiency in Athletics (it makes sense).

This would allow a rogue with STR 10 and expertise to make a 14' jump at 1st level, and a 22' foot jump at 17+ level. A stronger rogue could obviously go further. A STR 20 with expertise could make a 32 foot jump (well beyond the world record) with no check. I would also rule the minimum approach distance should be equal to the distance you wish to jump (but that is just my preference).

Normal (rolling): If falling is a real consequence (leaping a gap or something), a check is required. I suggest the DC equals the distance required minus 10. Failure by 5 or less might mean reaching the edge and hanging, requiring another check to climb out or something; failing by more than 5 would result in falling.

A character trying to jump a 30-foot gap would require a DC 20 check or likely fall. A low-level rogue with STR 10 and expertise (+4 to check) would have a 25% chance to make this jump (16+), a 25% chance to make the ledge and need to climb out (11-15), and a 50% chance of falling (10 or lower).

For a high level character with STR 20 and expertise, a total of +17 (maximum) to the check, should have little difficulty in making the leap and have no risk of falling (unless you house-rule a natural 1 or something).

A longer approach (I would recommend 40 feet minimum instead of 10 feet) should grant advantage. Difficult or slippery terrain would impose disadvantage.

Or you could allow a check to double your bonus? That would make REALLY long jumps, though, so I wouldn't do it personally but tastes differ.

If you want truly heroic types of things to be possible, think of a STR 14 rogue with expertise. Make a DC 10 check to double proficiency bonus for distance. At maximum, this would be +24, add in the STR 14 and now you are looking at a 38' foot jump. If you allow this in armor/gear/etc. it is an insane feat IMO. But, there are ways to rule it if that is what you want.