D&D 5E Reasonable Movement and Athletic Feats?

[Garthanos]

Ok, I feel very qualified to chime in on this since I competed in track and field for nearly 10 years.

My personal bests:

22' 6" long jump (but this is with a 56' "approach")

Nice! my standing broad jump was 8.25 and my leg press was pretty extraordinary for someone 5'10 and 155 lbs (I think the press was 540 lbs) when I was in highschool I played football and baseball and while I was one of the faster runners it wasn't hugely different from the other athletic types.

 

[Charlaquin]

Here is the much more important thing.

it’s a game.

I feel like there’s an inconsistency in your arguments here. Your initial claim was that athletes in real life can jump higher and farther than D&D characters, but when it’s pointed out that this is in a context D&D characters are highly unlikely to find themselves in, you counter that it’s just a game.

I actually agree with you that it’s not terribly important to model what real-world athletes are capable of in a game, but I think that argument kind of defeats the premise of this thread. The jump distances are simple, easy to remember, and get most players far/high enough with little fuss. If a character needs to jump higher/farther than those rules allow, ask them to describe a goal and approach, set a DC, and call for a Strength (Athletics) check.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I feel like there’s an inconsistency in your arguments here. Your initial claim was that athletes in real life can jump higher and farther than D&D characters, but when it’s pointed out that this is in a context D&D characters are highly unlikely to find themselves in, you counter that it’s just a game.

I actually agree with you that it’s not terribly important to model what real-world athletes are capable of in a game, but I think that argument kind of defeats the premise of this thread. The jump distances are simple, easy to remember, and get most players far/high enough with little fuss. If a character needs to jump higher/farther than those rules allow, ask them to describe a goal and approach, set a DC, and call for a Strength (Athletics) check.

A game shouldn’t limit players by nitpicking what’s possible with bookkeeping.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Nice! my standing broad jump was 8.25 and my leg press was pretty extraordinary for someone 5'10 and 155 lbs (I think the press was 540 lbs) when I was in highschool I played football and baseball and while I was one of the faster runners it wasn't hugely different from the other athletic types.

Thanks. That's a good standing broad jump! I think I got around 8 feet IIRC but since it wasn't ever in competition, I can't be certain. I had the second highest leg press in our high-school at 960 lbs, 18 45-lbs plates and 150-lbs rack. (The fullback on our football team did a full 20 plates!!) I only did football my freshman year, then track in the spring, later cross-country, indoor track, and track the other years. I considered myself the jack of all trades for track and field, competing (at one point or another) in nearly every event (we didn't have javelin; otherwise I didn't do triple-jump and discus but everything else).

 

[Charlaquin]

A game shouldn’t limit players by nitpicking what’s possible with bookkeeping.

Right, I agree with you, so I find this desire to change the rules for how far/high characters can jump strange. The rules that exist are perfectly passable, and if they aren’t sufficient, you have Athletics checks.

 

[Garthanos]

Might as well say we don't care this all is going to be overshadowed by spells anyway.

 

[FrogReaver]

Here is the much more important thing.

it’s a game.

You are the one that started the thread about real world examples...

Are you really going to criticize someone for putting those real world examples in their proper context?

Or is it a game only when it benefits your point and let's talk about real world examples only when that benefits your point?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

And all those real-life jumpers aren't wearing armor and full backpacks. So trying to emulate "real-life" with D&D numbers is kinda misleading.

It’s not about emulating anything, it’s about letting the PCs be more physically heroic in a cinematic sense, using IRL performance as a guidepost for what is possible.

It’s about the feel of the game, not realism.

 

[FrogReaver]

It’s not about emulating anything, it’s about letting the PCs be more physically heroic in a cinematic sense, using IRL performance as a guidepost for what is possible.

It’s about the feel of the game, not realism.

If we are using real life performance as a guidepost then I'd suggest the jumping rules are likely to lenient on a heavy armored - fully geared fighter with a backpack.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Ok, I feel very qualified to chime in on this since I competed in track and field for nearly 10 years.

My personal bests:

22' 6" long jump (but this is with a 56' "approach")
5' 8" high jump (not great, but I am only 5' 7" myself, so I was always proud of it)
11.5 100-m sprint (again, not great, but pretty decent)
4 min. 23 sec. mile (again, not great but good IMO)

A "triple jump" is three "jumps" in a row, so not really useful in D&D unless you are literally hopping, skipping, and jumping over a creek or something.

The idea of long jumping with only a 10-20' approach is very limiting. You just can't get up to speed that well quickly enough to jump the 20+ feet many people think about.

For such a short approach, the simple passive system actually works pretty well IMO. My STR during the years of competing would have been a 12 probably, and with the minimum 10' approach required in RAW my "jump" would really have been a "stride or leap", and getting 12 feet would have been pretty easy.

To increase jump distances, I would allow a DC 10 STR (Athletics) check. If you succeed, you add your proficiency bonus to the distance. My proficiency in Athletics would have been maybe a +3 (I was good, won some events, etc, but hardly top collegiate or anything, and no where near professional). This would allow me to make a 15-foot "jump" with only a 10-foot approach, and I could see that happening back in the day.

Other options on a successful check would be:
Adding your STR modifier
Doubling the approach (so you can really "run" into the jump) could either lower the DC or double the proficiency bonus.
Double modifier/ proficiency for encumbrance less than STR (so 10 lbs or less for STR 10).

A final note: competitive jumping in school and sports lands in the "pit", a sand-filled landing zone and many jumpers land "near-prone", throwing themselves forward. Landing on a hard surface and on your feet, would drastically reduce the distance you could jump. Also, you aren't wearing a lot when you jump competitively, in D&D having traveling clothes, armor, and gear/weapons would severely hamper your jump.

That is why I think of jumps in D&D more like "leaps" or "strides".

Sure, and I wouldn’t be opposed to an optional rule that limits jumping based on how much gear you have relative to your size, but anything remotely satisfying that doesn’t need up feeling like it goes too far into restriction, would probably be much to complex, so I’d rather just allow the cool thing.

Well, the current world record for long jump is 29' 4.25".

Here is what I suggest...

First, jump distances should only count half the distance in movement IMO. That is the way our table plays it anyway.

Normal (passive): add proficiency bonus to Distance if you have proficiency in Athletics (it makes sense).

This would allow a rogue with STR 10 and expertise to make a 14' jump at 1st level, and a 22' foot jump at 17+ level. A stronger rogue could obviously go further. A STR 20 with expertise could make a 32 foot jump (well beyond the world record) with no check. I would also rule the minimum approach distance should be equal to the distance you wish to jump (but that is just my preference).

Normal (rolling): If falling is a real consequence (leaping a gap or something), a check is required. I suggest the DC equals the distance required minus 10. Failure by 5 or less might mean reaching the edge and hanging, requiring another check to climb out or something; failing by more than 5 would result in falling.

A character trying to jump a 30-foot gap would require a DC 20 check or likely fall. A low-level rogue with STR 10 and expertise (+4 to check) would have a 25% chance to make this jump (16+), a 25% chance to make the ledge and need to climb out (11-15), and a 50% chance of falling (10 or lower).

For a high level character with STR 20 and expertise, a total of +17 (maximum) to the check, should have little difficulty in making the leap and have no risk of falling (unless you house-rule a natural 1 or something).

A longer approach (I would recommend 40 feet minimum instead of 10 feet) should grant advantage. Difficult or slippery terrain would impose disadvantage.

Or you could allow a check to double your bonus? That would make REALLY long jumps, though, so I wouldn't do it personally but tastes differ.

If you want truly heroic types of things to be possible, think of a STR 14 rogue with expertise. Make a DC 10 check to double proficiency bonus for distance. At maximum, this would be +24, add in the STR 14 and now you are looking at a 38' foot jump. If you allow this in armor/gear/etc. it is an insane feat IMO. But, there are ways to rule it if that is what you want.

I like proficiency to jump distance, and jumping movement only using half movement. I don’t think I’d use the extended run up, just because it feels a bit more limiting than I’m looking for. Maybe increase the running start by 5ft for jumps over 20ft. Idk, I like things simple. But increasing your approach to gain advantage on a jumping check, Im into. Also, using Checks more when there is danger.

Right, I agree with you, so I find this desire to change the rules for how far/high characters can jump strange. The rules that exist are perfectly passable, and if they aren’t sufficient, you have Athletics checks.

I don’t find them passable. If you aren’t interested in working out something else, why post in the thread? I will never be friendly to “your goal is bad and you should just use what is already there”.