D&D 5E Have we rebalanced the Champion Yet?

[FrogReaver]

I still say a simple although not perfect solution is to double the effect of your fighting style. It narrows the gap a lot.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Action Surge is about as potent as two 1st-level Paladin smites, a little more or less depending on a variety of mitigating factors, and Improved Critical never runs out. Paladins have impressive smite damage, but once they're done, they're done for the day. A big difference between short-rest and long-rest abilities is the party has much more freedom to take one when and if they decide they need one. If the Paladin blows those 2nd-level smites trying to clear out bugbears as fast as possible, there is no way to get them back if the rogue comes back warning them that the next room shows all the signs of a troll living there.

Why not wait until you find out if you actually end up with two different Fighters in your game? Because comparing the damage of the Champion and the Battlemaster is unnecessary if you don't have both actually competing against each other at the table.

And the best way to do this is with magic items, not rule changes. Prefer to give a Champion magic weapons with bonus damage dice over flat pluses, e.g. a sword that does +1d4 cold damage over a +1 magic sword.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

If you're not multiclassing, giving the Champion their full increased crit range at level 3 doesn't unbalance things at all. The BM has the advantage of on-call damage and special effects when they need it, and that is significantly better than the same amount of daily damage boosts applied randomly.

I do not feel the BM nneeds nerfing however. I don't think that there are many people who are complaining about the spotlight time of a Fighter class dominating the other classes in all three pillars of the game.

Already alluded to, but there is a fundamental assumption that may not be valid made here: "The player knows how to play there character". If the BM forgets to use their superiority dice and the EK forgets to cast their spells the Champion is well ahead. The Champion is designed to be fool proof, not strong.

Forgetting about their higher crit range would be the Champion equivalent, and probably as likely.

 

[NotAYakk]

Action Surge at 5 is 2[W]+2Stat but can miss. 2 first-level smites is 4d8, and can be 8d8 wait for crits, and cannot miss.

Action Surge is only stronger when you have other sources of nova, like Assassin's 3, trip-vantage and smites, etc.

 

[Minigiant]

Apparently all battle masters are introverts.

all that book learnin..
makes sense

 

[DEFCON 1]

I think you are totally missing the point. It's not about once play starts. It's about having the champion as a competitive option to pick from before the game starts.

If people select the Champion, its not because they are looking for something "competitive", its because they wants the rules and actions of the Champion fighter. Besides, no one except us dingbats here on these boards have wasted our time white-rooming the damage comparisons between all these options to try and figure out if things are "balanced" or not. So when a player comes to the table and sees the Champion and the Battlemaster... their choice isn't going to be about "which one can do the most damage"... it's going to be what and how the two subclasses do what they do, and which one suits the player more.

Damage balance only matters after the fact if/when one of the players start feeling bad that they don't seem to be doing the same sorts of things their compatriots are. But until then... none of it matters. I mean heck... what happens if you get a Champion Fighter player and the other PCs are a Knowledge cleric, Whispers bard, Arcane Trickster rogue, and an Abjurer wizard? That Champion is NEVER going to wonder "Ya know... I don't know if my character is "competitive"?"

 

[Quartz]

The BM and Smite dice do not depend on accuracy, because you burn them after a hit. Action surge damage does, because you burn the resource then determine if it hits.

Thank you for elaborating.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Action Surge at 5 is 2[W]+2Stat but can miss. 2 first-level smites is 4d8, and can be 8d8 wait for crits, and cannot miss.

I accounted for chance to hit in my calculations.

2d8 is an average of 9 damage. Depending on the target AC, fighting style, Advantage, and possession of a +1 sword, a single attack from from a Champion with 18 main stat averages between 4 (flat d6+4, no advantage, target AC of 18) and 15 damage (Great Weapon style, +1 greatsword, advantage, target AC of 12).

Depending on the Champion in question, what exactly he's smacking, and whether or not it's prone/blinded/faerie fired/etc, an Action Surge is a real wallop.

 

[Horwath]

Champion is a simple subclass and buff should be simple also.

I find that giving it +1 HP per level and +1 HP per level to second wind heal is just about right.

 

[Garthanos]

I still say a simple although not perfect solution is to double the effect of your fighting style. It narrows the gap a lot.

Fighting styles are pretty minor though that seems a way to tweak a small easily understandable amount though.