D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

I don't think 5e fans in general think the game is perfect and unable to be criticized.

I cannot count the number of times 5e fans have used Ad Populum to discount criticisms of the game... it must perfect honest everyone including all these new players picked it ... sheesh

 

[FrogReaver]

In AD&D land that really was the all and only imagine it how you like was such a great feature... honestly its not a new thought it was the argument against 3e feats. The extreme has already happened (to martial types only of course).
The 5e fighter can indeed do grabs and shoves and trips but all only affect one enemy it takes virtually everything they got to affect all adjacent enemies and maximum level to boot their effectiveness at most everything other than just damage has been shot out the window in comparison.

Way to forget what we were talking about!

 

[Imaro]

I don't think it's my job to answer for random other posters. Ask them.

I wasn't asking you to answer for anyone... I was wondering what your thoughts were on the 2 viewpoints.

 

[FrogReaver]

I cannot count the number of times 5e fans have used Ad Populum to discount criticisms of the game... it must perfect honest everyone including all these new players picked it ... sheesh

I'd need examples to really respond.

I will say this though - ad populum is a good starting point - not to say the game is perfect but to say that people generally like that combination of features.

 

[Garthanos]

Can you agree that 4e is much different than any other edition of D&D ever created?

Or we can go with the other angle of how the math of 5e is basically the same as 4e divide by two and how huge numbers of the details which people claim made 4e so much different are glaringly in 5e? Which angle do we take? which is convenient for the hostility against 4e?

 

[FrogReaver]

Or we can go with the other angle of how the math of 5e is basically the same as 4e divide by two and how huge numbers of the details which people claim made 4e so much different are glaringly in 5e? Which angle do we take? which is convenient for the hostility against 4e?

So you don't agree that 4e is much different than any other edition of D&D? Seems rather counter intuitive with how it's far and away your favorite edition?

 

[Aldarc]

Can you agree that 4e is much different than any other edition of D&D ever created? And while for you that difference may have been wonderful - do you understand that for others the changes may have been terrible?

If you can understand and acknowledge that then surely it's not much of a step to understand why someone like I described above would not consider 4e to be D&D - because to them it was vastly different than any other edition of D&D ever created in a very negative way.

I can certainly agree that you are asking a series of loaded questions that are framed with a fairly clear agenda and bias.

 

[Maxperson]

Like Pemerton, I'm less interested in crucifying anyone for this opinion, though I do find it somewhat puzzling in the greater context. In the words of @Oofta, 4e is a "dead edition." The haters and critics largely won out and 5e came out of that. That is a pretty HUGE acknowledgment of their opinions, which has to feel pretty gosh darn validating. How much more validation do they need?

When I eventually get to eat out again, a few years of being covered there would be nice. #LosAngelesparkingisexpensive.

Meanwhile 4e continues being treated like the red-headed stepchild of D&D, with people still throwing out variations of "it's not D&D" or "it doesn't feel like D&D to me." I think that the goal of most fans of 4e at this point is not to crucify those who dislike 4e, but a genuine desire to remove the corpse of 4e off the crucifix and give it a proper burial among past dead editions of D&D. I suspect that most fans of 4e in these threads would simply like 4e acknowledged as a game that exists as a legitimately valid part and expression of D&D.

Serious response here. I really haven't seen anyone in this thread say it wasn't D&D or didn't feel like D&D. There was no crucifix here in this thread to remove 4e from, and when there isn't such a crucifix in a thread and you act like there is, you are bringing down the thread and attacking others for no good reason.

 

[nomotog]

I think I would blame this samey feeling on cadence. I never got into 4ed, but at least with the first player handbook, everyone had the same resource economy. One daily power, 4 encounter powers and 2 at will, so well your doing different things you're doing them in the same order and at the same pace. This would have a double effect because 3ed was really big on using different resource economies to split up classes. Like the warlock is just a wizard with the cadence of a fighter, and my favorite class from 3rd is just cleric but they get spells like a wizard.

 

[FrogReaver]

I can certainly agree that you are asking a series of loaded questions that are framed with a fairly clear agenda and bias.

See, you obviously don't want to understand the other side. You place no value on their opinion and the reasoning behind it. And anyone who dares to speak up for that side you label them as "having an agenda". The only clear agenda at the moment is yours - where you dismiss any opinion that is negative of 4e.

You see, I liked 4e and would much rather play it than say 3.5e even today. But I still acknowledge that not every game works for every person and that same set of facts that inform my opinion of the game also inform theirs.

In this case it's been pointed out how very different 4e is than 5e and other versions of d&d by 4e fans up to this point. That's been a good thing up until I cite it as a valid reason that some people would criticize it. Amazing how that works huh?