On Behavioral Realism

[Sadras]

To be honest I'd create a few more Conditions to deal with such matters as they are quite easy to incorporate into the game: Dishevelled, Filthy, Ragged, Unwashed

 

[Morrus]

How do you try and encourage players to play like "real" people, who just want a bath after a sewer expedition or are willing to throw away half their earnings to impress the bartender? How do you convince players that emulating reality in this way not only enhances the game but makes it more fun for them? Or do you? Do you care if players engage in behavioral realism? Or maybe you don't experience the problem and you play with people, or are such a person, that inherently does these things.
Thanks.

I mean, I guess it's up to them what they find fun? I'm not sure mandatory fun by roleplaying a bath is my cup of tea.

 

[Doug McCrae]

In something fantastical, like D&D, I don't particularly care but in Call of Cthulhu I think it's kind of important.

The highest levels of behavioural realism I've experienced were in rpgs where the players played themselves (albeit with superhuman powers) in a contemporary setting. In Villains & Vigilantes we were far more reluctant to kill. In Paul Mackintosh's Dream Game campaign, we avoided breaking the law (even when the GM expected us to.)

Contrast with rpgs such as Vampire where killing and lawbreaking are common in my experience, despite the supposed restriction of the Masquerade.

 

[Reynard]

I mean, I guess it's up to them what they find fun? I'm not sure mandatory fun by roleplaying a bath is my cup of tea.

I don't want folks to overly focus on the bath thing. That was just an example. More broadly what I am talking about is players having their characters behave in ways that are recognizably realistic, with the caveat that those characters are also the sort to get some thrill out of doing whatever terribly dangerous thing the game is about. I agree with the poster upthread that said one would have to be more than a little crazy to be a D&D style adventurer, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't spend frivolously, form relationships or build a life.

I am also not saying this stuff needs to eat a bunch of play time, just that it would be fun if it were present and apparent enough that sometimes decisions made in play were based on them.

Of course, people play RPGs for different reasons and for a lot of folks it is escapism. They don't want to worry about their character's toilet habits any more than such things are prevalent in the popular fiction RPGs often emulate. (As an aside, I always find it interesting when writers go into length about food and eating yet never once talk about other less savory aspects of living.)

 

[Guest 6801328]

A friend and I were talking about how to run a successful game focused on treasure hunting in 5e and it led to a discussion on how players rarely seem to do things that real people do. The example that came up was the classic Inn situation: the PCs have been in the wild and the dungeon for a week or two and they finally come back to civilization, but when presented with prices for a room, a bath and a meal they decide to camp outside and eat rations to save money. Now, I was a US Army infantry soldier (during peace time; never deployed; I don't want to misrepresent) and after a week in the swamps of Georgia on a training exercise I would have given my whole paycheck for a bath, a beer and something out of an oven to eat.

This led to a more broad discussion of behavioral realism in RPGs, primarily about how players tend to operate largely in the game space when it comes to the very basic, human needs and desires and behaviors that rule our day to day lives. Even players that are very good role players from a funny voices and defined personality standpoint generally, in my experience, don't do tired, sick, afraid, horny, fed up, etc... well.

How do you try and encourage players to play like "real" people, who just want a bath after a sewer expedition or are willing to throw away half their earnings to impress the bartender? How do you convince players that emulating reality in this way not only enhances the game but makes it more fun for them? Or do you? Do you care if players engage in behavioral realism? Or maybe you don't experience the problem and you play with people, or are such a person, that inherently does these things.

Thanks.

It sounds to me, at least with this particular example, you are projecting your own experience and assuming it applies to everybody.

There's a long and gloried history in climbing culture (mountains and rocks, not social climbing) that you live on the cheap. I know wealthy climbers who will stay in the nicest hotels when they go heli-skiing, but when they go climbing will break laws to find a free place to sleep in the dirt, where they'll eat beans from a can warmed over a whisperlite. (Note: this tradition may have changed as climbing, and particular sport-climbing, has gone mainstream.)

So who's to say what is "realistic" behavior?

There's a certain poster who once used the phrase "what a wood elf would do", and has made numerous other similar comments. That's a little bit like saying, "What a Floridian would do." Sure, maybe in situation X people from Florida are more likely than people from Colorado to have reaction Y, but to expect...to even be insistent...that all Floridians will do Y is...is...nuts?

Heroes are outliers. Oddballs. Definitely not average.

Let them do what their players want them to do.

The alternative is policing the thoughts of your players. ("No, I don't think you're doing that for story reasons, you are doing it for a metagame reason!")

No thank you.

 

[Celebrim]

I mean, I guess it's up to them what they find fun? I'm not sure mandatory fun by roleplaying a bath is my cup of tea.

I don't think the point is to actually roleplay out a bath.

I think the point is that there ought to be consequences when players state that they don't engage in basic hygiene and eschew basic comforts.

 

[Sadras]

Heroes are outliers. Oddballs. Definitely not average.

And yet they too can stink.

Let them do what their players want them to do.

He is. He is just asking for ways, should he want to, to incentivise a less gamist approach. I'm using that term loosely. So what are the benefits of washing, splurging at a tavern, eating well, socialising with ones preferred gender, maintaining your equipment, updating your maps, acquisition of clothing, resting your horse, good grooming, paying for massages, sharing a decent drink...

Xanathars addresses some of these concerns, others not.

EDIT: Besides some of these might be great ways to introduce interesting NPCs or storylines.

The alternative is policing the thoughts of your players. ("No, I don't think you're doing that for story reasons, you are doing it for a metagame reason!")

No thank you.

Plenty games have additional conditions that do not exist within D&D. I believe Torchbearer has the Hungry condition. There is no great harm to the game by introducing a Dishevelled condition. I feel describing that as policing is somewhat hyperbolic.

 

[Celebrim]

He is. He is just asking for ways, should he want to, to incentivise a less gamist approach. I'm using that term loosely. So what are the benefits of washing, splurging at a tavern, eating well, socialising with ones preferred gender, maintaining your equipment, updating your maps, acquisition of clothing, resting your horse, good grooming, paying for massages, sharing a good drink...

I bought Pendragon and the Great Pendragon Campaign in hardback from Drivethrough during the GM's day sale, and won thing I really like is that living well (or not) has a massive impact on your character (and even helps you 'level up).

 

[macd21]

WFRP 4 kind of accounts for this through a pretty simple mechanic. After an adventure, you get to spend any treasure you may have accumulated (on equipment or what have you). Anything left over is gone by the time you start the next adventure. It’s assumed you spend it on booze, gambling, women, a slightly enhanced standard of living for a few weeks etc.

And then you’re basically left with your character’s status level (from which you might be able to get some coin from gainful employment, so you don’t start the next adventure penniless). So a status zero pauper will be dirty, smelly and dressed in rags, while the Noble will be clean, perfumed and well dressed (and probably have a few gold crowns in his coin purse).

 

[Sadras]

I bought Pendragon and the Great Pendragon Campaign in hardback from Drivethrough during the GM's day sale, and won thing I really like is that living well (or not) has a massive impact on your character (and even helps you 'level up).

Thanks, now I'm curious. I have bought an old Pendragon edition, do not remember which one but I just haven't made the necessary time to check it out. Plenty of time to do so under a quarantine.