D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide errata coming

[shadowoflameth]

It's far and away better than every other patron for every type of Warlock.

It's not even close. It's just better.

Patrons usually have minor abilities. Hexblade gives you medium armour and shields. That alone is a bump of 4-5 AC and worth taking over any other patron.

Interesting. I haven't played the other Patrons. Fiend temp hit points is OK. We had a drow player who really liked the Archfey. I considered Great Old One. I might still have done a different patron if I weren't set on Pact of the Blade though. I'm not even using armor and shields, most of the time Shield and Mage Armor have made it OK. Not optimal I know but flavor wise I've enjoyed it.

 

[Dausuul]

Dancey was fired in 2002, and his product strategy failed.

I wouldn't go that far. Remember that D&D was in a very bad way after TSR's collapse. There are times when a strategy geared for short-term success is the right one... like when you're trying to salvage a failed business and you need to rebuild market share and customer base. Considering where D&D was when Dancey came in, and where it was when he left, I don't think it's fair to say he had a bad strategy.

But that doesn't mean it's the right strategy today. The world of 2020 is not the world of 1999, and the problems WotC had to address with 5E are quite different from the ones they had to address with 3E. And looking at how 5E has performed over the last few years, anyone who says WotC is pursuing a bad strategy has their work cut out for them to back up that claim.

 

[Essafah]

There's no reason to speculate about hidden motives. Everything Mearls said lines up with what we know about running sustainable profits instead of trading long-term viability for short-term gains.

What exact business principle are you referencing when you mention"running sustainable profits instead of trading long-term viability for short-term gain."? To be clear long-term gains are the goal, no one is disputed that as this is common sense but repeat business is the goal of a business and how businesses grow. MTG for example makes money of selling the core set but it is repeated business in terms of booster packs that keeps the profits coming. What Mearls is saying lines up with a business decision to not focus on the book portion of D&D so much as the other portion by a company who needs a certain amount of profit for something to be considered worth their while. Splatbooks actually do make money. That is how most RPG company's stay alive in the current era not the 1990's but they don't make the kind of profits for a major corporation like Hasbro to consider an investment in. Thus we have microtransactions on D&D Beyond, we have board games, stuff Hasbro understands very well.

This is a tautology. Yes, if splats made sustainable profits, then Hasbro would be happy with them. But they don't. Splats eventually lose money, and they intrinsically destroy the long-term viability of your product. An evergreen set of core rules combine with tentpole adventures has proven to make a lot more money and produced a growing customer base compared to what they did with 3.5 and 4e.

Here you are speculating because again WOTC has not said how much money they have made from book sales alone compared to other editions they have just released total profits. People have actually asked this question and never gotten an answer. If I was a gambler I would solidly bet that D&D Beyond alone accounts for a good portion of these profits via the microtransactions available there. Microtransactions are highly profitable as "free" video games like Marvels Contest of Champions has shown.

Dancey was fired in 2002, and his product strategy failed. This is because he was wrong. Really, all you can learn from him is what not to do. Killing your product's long-term viability to gobble up some short-term gains produces a declining customer base and market apathy, not rivers of cash.

Well, 1. I said I believe it was Ryan Dancey not sure it was him. 2. The person was just telling what was a general principle of how RPG companies view things. Basically they (he didn't say WOTC) he was referencing RPG companies in general believe that not coming out with a new edition every 5-6 years is leaving money on the table. How he ran or didn't run the company is irrelevant to the conversation. 3. Assuming what you say about him is true that does not mean he does not know what he talking about. That is like saying just because a professional football player failed to get a touchdown they don't understand football. It is a a common type of fallacy because it is an attack on the person not the person's argument.

People who still run their business based on mistaken concepts of the 1990s and struggle to rise above a 5% marketshare as they churn through capital to produce constant revisions just to try and stay afloat aren't ahead of D&D. They're behind. This is like saying the Patriots are way behind the curve compared the Browns because they don't have a new starting quarterback every 6 games.

When I said ahead of D&D I meant ahead in terms of editions produced not sales. I try not to state the obvious because I feel people should get the obvious. Bottom line, I will agree splatbooks don't produce the profits Hasbro wants. As far as it killing product etc pretty much every RPG company in existence proves you wrong. Let's not forget that up until a few years ago Paizo with Pathfinder was beating out D&D. I am not a fan of Pathfinder but it was successful and I guess still is. By your admission Paizo should not be successful because they churn out books all the time and we are not talking about the 1990's. They made a huge shift in the RPG market without Hasbro money behind them and again I am not a fan of Paizo or actually more specifically I am not a fan of PF (I have nothing against the company). It is my believe is the only thing holding them back right now is the complex rules set of PF 2 vs the streamlined but still customizable ruleset of D&D 5E, and by by convoluted I mean the core game not the splat books but the game itself is dense which is not appealing to many people. I think if paizo just produced worlds and adventures and optional rules for the 5E system they would be golden right now instead of focusing on PF2 but I guess they have audience that wants what they offer and market diversity is good.

 

[Stilvan]

I'm sure DDB will update to the errata once the errata is officially released. I'm sure that's their agreement with WotC.

AD

Yes, I think you're right. What irritates me is why are they waiting until after the print book has been released to release the official errata. And my guess there would be they decided to hold off the release until they had some certain amount of changes. I think it is poor optics having a change inaccessible in DDB when it is in print.

 

[Essafah]

I wouldn't go that far. Remember that D&D was in a very bad way after TSR's collapse. There are times when a strategy geared for short-term success is the right one... like when you're trying to salvage a failed business and you need to rebuild market share and customer base. Considering where D&D was when Dancey came in, and where it was when he left, I don't think it's fair to say he had a bad strategy.

But that doesn't mean it's the right strategy today. The world of 2020 is not the world of 1999, and the problems WotC had to address with 5E are quite different from the ones they had to address with 3E. And looking at how 5E has performed over the last few years, anyone who says WotC is pursuing a bad strategy has their work cut out for them to back up that claim.

Excellent point. Prior to 5E D&D 3E was the highest selling edition. This makes sense because before 3E D&D had not gotten an update since 1989. The game design philosophy of 2E was very antiquated and 3E came out as a success. In fact, it was the success of D&D 3E, MtG, and Pokemon that attracted Hasbro to WoTC. Then I think Hasbro got disappointed that D&D books could not sell like that on the regular basis again this was discussed in an old Enworld article on why Hasbro was attracted to WotC. To be clear 5E is now per what we are told the most profitable edition but where we can say 3E the profits were book based with 5E we just don't know that but I suspect the profits are not from the books but other things.

 

[Dausuul]

To be clear 5E is now per what we are told the most profitable edition but where we can say 3E the profits were book based with 5E we just don't know that but I suspect the profits are not from the books but other things.

There is one place where we can examine the performance of D&D books specifically, which is Amazon. And what we see from Amazon is spectacular sales, with the PHB regularly breaking into the top 100 and other D&D books also performing very well.

Obviously Hasbro is pursuing a multi-platform approach to 5E, with e-tools and video games and cross-promotions and the whole shebang. I have no doubt they've got money flooding in from many channels. But there is no reason to believe they are doing poorly with plain old book sales, quite the contrary.

Like I said: Ryan Dancey's strategy was a good one in 1999. Maybe there were better ones, but his was good enough to launch 3E to considerable success. But that doesn't mean it's a good strategy, let alone the best strategy, in 2020.

 

[Essafah]

There is one place where we can examine the performance of D&D books specifically, which is Amazon. And what we see from Amazon is spectacular sales, with the PHB regularly breaking into the top 100 and other D&D books also performing very well.

Obviously Hasbro is pursuing a multi-platform approach to 5E, with e-tools and video games and cross-promotions and the whole shebang. I have no doubt they've got money flooding in from many channels. But there is no reason to believe they are doing poorly with plain old book sales, quite the contrary.

Like I said: Ryan Dancey's strategy was a good one in 1999. Maybe there were better ones, but his was good enough to launch 3E to considerable success. But that doesn't mean it's a good strategy, let alone the best strategy, in 2020.

To be clear I never said 5E books were not selling. What I am saying is we don't know what percentage of their revenue the books generate vs. other revenue sources like D&D Beyond. D&D books sold well on Amazon in 3rd edition and at the start of 4E as well.

Also, I am not saying that what you are calling "Dancey's strategy" which is the strategy that every other RPG company besides WoTC follows is the way to go for 2020. What I am saying though is 1) if Hasbro accepted profit margins from splatbooks like every other company to be worthwhile we would have splat books but because the profits from splat books is usually just above the cost to print and market this profit level is not worthwhile for a major mainstream corporation like WoTC and secondly I am saying that while I understand and appreciate quality control it damn sure would be nice to have some products to spend money on (official products).

 

[Umbran]

And you even celebrate and publicly declare your underperformance. The book wasn't finished yesterday the errata has been in place for months at this point. Please continue agitating for under-delivery its quite amusing.

Mod note:
@Stilvan - The condescension stops now. Disagree without insulting people, please.

 

[tetrasodium]

Ok, maybe it is not a big deal to you, maybe you are one of those maniacs that destroy books for fun. But I like to keep my books untainted and in one piece. It is very traumatic to me having to mess with them. (I likely have issues with this, but that is not the point here, besides I don't have drama queen in the description for no reason)

From reading your posts in this topic, it sounds like your copy of xge is still shrinkwrapped in a sealed notarized protective shell stored in a glass case? If that's the case then soon you will be able to be proud of a mint first edition and have the option of doing the same with a second edition if you think the investment potential of such a move is worthwhile.

 

[Fenris447]

I'm not talking about money. Though the fact that it costs money is a factor. The book I have is now useless without doing things to it, and these things will damage it . That or buy a later print.

Did something happen to the other 191 pages? Useless? Really?