D&D 5E Xanathar's Guide errata coming

[fearsomepirate]

Little note & point of order there... Hexblade & dragonsbreath are in XgE not the PHB. With hexblade the power creep is tangible & makes a one level dip in hexblade almost mandatory for an optimized paladin to ditch a need for strength above plate's 15 requirement. Hexblade is especially worrisome because of the sheer amount of charisma based blatant appeals to munchkinism written into both PHB & xge. The fact that no other stat even approaches the horizon where that sort of thing is firmly rooted for charisma is why hexblade's ripple effects are so significant.... For example hexblade makes this & makes it SAD with a single level of warlock and bumps so much else by making it short rest when warlocj barely even got a mention before.

Why even bother with 15 STR when 14 DEX gets you to 17 AC? And for two levels, that Paladin now has a ranged attack every bit as powerful as a Fighter's weapon attack that scales with character level, not class level.

I was already leaning toward banning MCing into Warlock when I started campaign, and the arrival of Hexblade cemented that decision.

 

[dave2008]

In more than one of those cases you explicitly spell out or admit ways that it is more powerful while claiming otherwise. With a well known combo that has as many options as scorlockadin an archtype that grants any increase in power at level 1 to the others can be magnified when combined with the others or compared to individual single class pieces of that multiclass combo. If combos other than scorlock & scorlockadin had the same or even a similar near 3.5 splatbook puzzle level of options as the scorlock/scorlockadin then you could brush it off as no big deal but that's very much not the case.

You realize that you didn't answer the question you quoted? Did you quote the wrong text?

 

[tetrasodium]

You realize that you didn't answer the question you quoted? Did you quote the wrong text?

Probably. I don't really care what books they are in, but it's just wrong to say that the scorlockadin archetype options are not a big jump in the power scale. I've not personally seen a hexblade/pally at my table, but I have seen a staggeringly effective sorcadin & can use my knowledge of that to imagine how hexblade would crank it a few extra notches. On top of that I've seen how other things like divine soul scorlock disrupted my game so can combine those two things into an understanding of why people would complain about hexblade specifically. If you look at the battlesmith & wotc's decision to gate "Battle Ready" (using int mod for weapon attacks) there'a no question that even wotc realized that archetype & weapon attacks with casting mod at first level was a poor decision & some hexblade errata is probably overdue as a result.

 

[dave2008]

Probably. I don't really care what books they are in, but it's just wrong to say that the scorlockadin archetype options are not a big jump in the power scale. I've not personally seen a hexblade/pally at my table, but I have seen a staggeringly effective sorcadin & can use my knowledge of that to imagine how hexblade would crank it a few extra notches. On top of that I've seen how other things like divine soul scorlock disrupted my game so can combine those two things into an understanding of why people would complain about hexblade specifically. If you look at the battlesmith & wotc's decision to gate "Battle Ready" (using int mod for weapon attacks) there'a no question that even wotc realized that archetype & weapon attacks with casting mod at first level was a poor decision & some hexblade errata is probably overdue as a result.

OK, so you didn't answer because you were wrong and then decided to talk about something else not related to what you quoted, but related to different post? I feel like you need some validation.

@tetrasodium and @Garthanos: you are correct, 5e has flaws and doesn't support every style of gaming. In particular it doesn't seem to support what you want. Your choices are:

1. Complain
2. Wait
3. House rule
4. Play a different game
5. Some combination of 1-4

All are valid approaches, follow the path that makes you happiest.

Personally my group chose approach #3 and it has worked for us (same approach we took in 1e and 4e too).

 

[Garthanos]

Personally my group chose approach #3 and it has worked for us (same approach we took in 1e and 4e too).

Somehow complaining while trying to do 3 because it looks to be pervasive and extensive might be for me.

 

[tetrasodium]

OK, so you didn't answer because you were wrong and then decided to talk about something else not related to what you quoted, but related to different post? I feel like you need some validation:
@tetrasodium and @Garthanos: you are correct, 5e has flaws and doesn't support every style of gaming. In particular it doesn't seem to support what you want. Your choices are:

1. Complain
2. Wait
3. House rule
4. Play a different game
5. Some combination of 1-4

All are valid approaches, follow the path that makes you happiest.

Personally my group chose approach #3 and it has worked for us (same approach we took in 1e and 4e too).

No, I continued the hexblade discussion that was already ongoing. The book of those two spells is irrelevant to that discussion. Perhaps your understanding of how wrong you were about hexblade not being quite a bit of power creep is why you "decided to talk about something else not related" like what book those spells are in?
Not all of those points you note are mutually exclusive either as you admit with point 5.

 

[dave2008]

Somehow complaining while trying to do 3 because it looks to be pervasive and extensive might be for me.

That would be #1 and #3 then.

Question: when house ruling an issue, do you try to solve it for all cases or just the cases relevant to your table?

 

[Garthanos]

Question: when house ruling an issue, do you try to solve it for all cases or just the cases relevant to your table?

I try to shoot for generically via the pattern of the game. I do not know what player I might have 5 months from now doesnt want that fear spell and that feat on his eldritch knight ... to be honest one of my favorite game character types was a warrior type who featured fear aura and focusing that fear on occasion to good effect to drive off enemies. So its kind of on my list. You are right I do worry about the big picture.

 

[dave2008]

No, I continued the hexblade discussion that was already ongoing. The book of those two spells is irrelevant to that discussion. Perhaps your understanding of how wrong you were about hexblade not being quite a bit of power creep is why you "decided to talk about something else not related" like what book those spells are in?

I think your streams are getting crossed. I have said nothing about hexblade and I know nothing about it. I was referring to this post of yours, which was a response to this post by doctorbadwolf. Those posts were just about the location of hexblade, nothing else. Your answers have repeatedly been about power creep / hexblade which related to a different post. It's ok, it happens, nothing to get worked up about,

Not all of those points you note are mutually exclusive either as you admit with point 5.

Yes, that is why I had 5 on there. In truth I am really doing #2 & #3, as there is always a chance WotC will surprise me and make variant rules that replace my house rules, but I doubt it. I realized many moons ago that I play a style of D&D that most others do not and I don't expect a massively popular game to change course and pick up my fringe ideas. I'm OK with that and for me, and I want to stress that I mean for me and my group only, 5e is easy to adapt to the style we like.

 

[dave2008]

I try to shoot for generically via the pattern of the game. I do not know what player I might have 5 months from now doesnt want that fear spell and that feat on his eldritch knight ... to be honest one of my favorite game character types was a warrior type who featured fear aura and focusing that fear on occasion to good effect to drive off enemies. So its kind of on my list. You are right I do worry about the big picture.

That is what I guessed. Much easier to do just what you need, but I understand the desire to make it work for everything. We always house rule as a group and just tackle what we need. We also don't mind making changes mid-stream if needed. Of course I've only gamed with two different groups over 30 years, so that makes a difference too.