Unearthed Arcana Unearthed Arcana Revisits Psionics

The latest Unearthed Arcana from WotC revisits some psionic rules! “Shine with the power of the mind in this installment of Unearthed Arcana! Today we revisit several psi-themed options that we released in the past few months. Studying your feedback on those options, we’ve crafted this new collection of subclasses, spells, and feats, found in the PDF below.“

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[Parmandur]

Sorry, I think I lost my temper a little bit... I simply detest when someone points to the RAW to justify an argument as to how the game "should be played."

It's a lot like Monopoly; did you know that the rules of Monopoly actually state that if you land on a property and don't buy it, it goes up for auction where every player has an option to purchase (and because the auction can start at $1, someone will get it eventually).

Most people don't play with that rule; in fact, most people don't even know that rule exists. Does that mean people play Monopoly wrong? Or does it even matter?

It's also why I find most of these argument against these psionics rules wears thin after awhile. Fine, if these rules don't match your exact vision of how the game should be played. Whatever. Change them so they do. Make your own class if you need one. The world will not end. Most people here seem happy with them (a lot of posters are simply writing "I like it!" and smartly leaving the thread after), what's wrong with that?

This is not aimed at you specifically @Parmandur , don't take offense.

No offense taken: I don't see RAW as a metaphysical imperative or anything myself, that's part of what makes 5E so slick. We can bend the game into shape with rulings very extensively, and it won't break outright.

I do think it is fair to say that something that is a bonus per RAW is a legit bonus, though. Githyanki PCs getting magical abilities that get around component limitations is totally sweet, assuming the rules as written, which I think is fair to expect from WotC rule expansions.

 

[Chaosmancer]

"Most"? Sez who...?

I could easily counter with "Who says most people do use it?"

I fully acknowledged that I have no hard data, I'm not a market researcher, I don't travel the country polling people's DnD games to see what rules they do and do not use.

But, I also know that everytime things like this come up ("Silent spell is OP because you can cast Suggestion on the King, it is the best metamagic in game" discussions are quite common on this forum, right? and Encumberance has it's day in the sun occasionally) we see that there is a split. And I'd argue, a rather sizable one.

Heck, we've had what, about 5 posters in the last 24 hours say that they don't bother to track components and handedness for their casters unless the situation is highly unusual?

Sure, I can't give a percentage, but it seems obvious to me that this is the case. And since it is the case, it is worth asking, is the ability to ignore a rule people are already ignoring worth not getting some other ability that could be used? Goliaths and Orcs do not get high ratings for their powerful build ability. It is seen as a ribbon at best, with the caveat of "if your table tracks encumberance this might be useful"

I don't even care about the conclusion of the discussion, I'm not saying to throw out the ability to ignore components. I'm saying it is worth talking about with the realization that many tables, maybe most tables, don't track that stuff anyways. So saying "this subclass is really powerful because it can ignore this rule" might not match up with the experiences of others.

I find this especially important to point out considering "psionics should never have components and always be subtle" comes up in every single thread about psionics. It seems to be one of the core abilities people keep demanding. And if it takes a large chunk of the design space, it is worth thinking about how useful it is to the average table.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Charm Person has a range of 30'. If you can't manage that stealthily in many many cases you probably shouldn't be in charge of planning the stealth portion of your festivities.

I actually find 30 ft to be fairly close. Picturing a ten yard line in a football game, and laying it out in a room, that seems to be like the distance from one end of a public school classroom to the other, or a short hallway in a house.

Not easy to have a normal tone conversation at that distance, but not exactly easy to hide you are talking and gesturing either.

 

[Parmandur]

I could easily counter with "Who says most people do use it?"

I fully acknowledged that I have no hard data, I'm not a market researcher, I don't travel the country polling people's DnD games to see what rules they do and do not use.

But, I also know that everytime things like this come up ("Silent spell is OP because you can cast Suggestion on the King, it is the best metamagic in game" discussions are quite common on this forum, right? and Encumberance has it's day in the sun occasionally) we see that there is a split. And I'd argue, a rather sizable one.

Heck, we've had what, about 5 posters in the last 24 hours say that they don't bother to track components and handedness for their casters unless the situation is highly unusual?

Sure, I can't give a percentage, but it seems obvious to me that this is the case. And since it is the case, it is worth asking, is the ability to ignore a rule people are already ignoring worth not getting some other ability that could be used? Goliaths and Orcs do not get high ratings for their powerful build ability. It is seen as a ribbon at best, with the caveat of "if your table tracks encumberance this might be useful"

I don't even care about the conclusion of the discussion, I'm not saying to throw out the ability to ignore components. I'm saying it is worth talking about with the realization that many tables, maybe most tables, don't track that stuff anyways. So saying "this subclass is really powerful because it can ignore this rule" might not match up with the experiences of others.

I find this especially important to point out considering "psionics should never have components and always be subtle" comes up in every single thread about psionics. It seems to be one of the core abilities people keep demanding. And if it takes a large chunk of the design space, it is worth thinking about how useful it is to the average table.

Well, I mean, sure. We don't know the exact numbers. WotC does have some idea, most likely, but it is going to be a broad spectrum certainly.

A handful of anecdotes here don't necessarily speak to what most people do: it could be that ENWorld posters are demographically more inclined than most to handwave the rules on components.

In the game as written, bypassing components is a significant thing that merits outlay of a Class or Raves power budget.

 

[Parmandur]

I actually find 30 ft to be fairly close. Picturing a ten yard line in a football game, and laying it out in a room, that seems to be like the distance from one end of a public school classroom to the other, or a short hallway in a house.

Not easy to have a normal tone conversation at that distance, but not exactly easy to hide you are talking and gesturing either.

Yes, but Magic.

 

[Hussar]

I actually find 30 ft to be fairly close. Picturing a ten yard line in a football game, and laying it out in a room, that seems to be like the distance from one end of a public school classroom to the other, or a short hallway in a house.

Not easy to have a normal tone conversation at that distance, but not exactly easy to hide you are talking and gesturing either.

If your house has 30 foot long hallways, and you think that's a short hallway, you have one hell of a big house. There are a lot of people out there whose entire house isn't 30 feet on a side. I grew up in a house that was a bit more than 40 feet on the long side - pretty standard bungalow.

 

[Maxperson]

We don't have hard numbers of course, but it is fair to ask "is it a bonus to a class to get an ability that ignores a part of the game we ignore anyways?"

So do you just tell the players who all the casters are in opposing groups? Do they have to ask or roll?

 

[Maxperson]

Homebrew matters in every discussion, because the only table you actually need to worry about is your own. The “state of the game” is a purely theoretical construct.

Don’t play RAW, play better.

When discussing rules, such as what the rules are for components and what the rules would be for a class that doesn't get components, that you homebrew components away has no bearing. Okay. That's what YOU do. Now how about talking about the rules, because the rules are what the designers go by when designing new things, not your house game.

 

[Aldarc]

Honestly, I do think that RAW (de jure) and non-RAW (de facto) play experience have bearing in the discussion. Because it's important when designing and playing a game to understand both how a game is meant to be played per rules and how a game is often played per praxis. Often these things align, but we learn a lot about the game from the places where they don't.

So it is correct that the debate of how psionics interact with SVM per RAW is important, but it's also important to understand in the discussion how psionics may not meaningfully interact with SVM per praxis if tables commonly handwave (to various degrees) the tracking of SVM.

 

[Fenris-77]

I actually find 30 ft to be fairly close. Picturing a ten yard line in a football game, and laying it out in a room, that seems to be like the distance from one end of a public school classroom to the other, or a short hallway in a house.

Not easy to have a normal tone conversation at that distance, but not exactly easy to hide you are talking and gesturing either.

I'd try harder. In a stealth environment you could be mostly hiding around a corner and speaking in low tones. 30' is enough that you're at least not shouting in anyone's ear. The PHB mentions pitch and resonance, but not volume, so it's not automatically completely anti-stealth. In a more crowded and/or louder environment it's easier. Keep in mind, the target doesn't have to be able to see the hand gestures, so you could be standing behind a market stall, lurking in a shadow, changing your swimsuit inside a towel, whatever. Minor Illusion could be a handy stealth casting tool in a lot of instances maybe, as could distractions of all kinds. I'm just suggesting that a little creativity can mitigate a lot of the perceived difficulty.