D&D and the rising pandemic

[Sadras]

There are almost 37,000 medical doctors in South Africa. I'm sure if I started a petition amongst them that claimed that eating cheese cured cancer, I'd be able to persuade 19 of them to sign it. And that's just medical doctors. In other cases like this, oftentimes the "experts" aren't experts in that field, but are instead doctors in subjects like engineering.

There are entire countries that have adopted social distancing but have not opted for lockdown. Is that because all the doctors in those countries aren't so-called 'experts'?

EDIT: Why is it that doctors with dissenting/opposing views get questioned about their credentials but not one voice is raised by MSM regarding the qualifications of Bill Gates?

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note
Folks,

This thread exists because there is a worldwide public health crisis in progress, that impacts every one of our users. It has claimed over 170,000 lives worldwide as of this writing. As of last week, it was killing more people per week in the US than either heart disease or cancer, making it, for the moment, the leading cause of death in the country. This has been the death toll despite the distancing measures taken. Without those measures, the death toll would be far, far worse.

If you want to dispute any of these facts, it is time for you to leave this thread, or any others related to covid-19.

There's a bunch of stuff people normally do that drastically increases the spread of this disease, and thus the risk of death to a great many people. Gathering in large groups at this time, or engaging in "business as usual" at this time is a major public health hazard. If you dispute this, it is time for you to leave this thread.

Running out in the middle of busy, fast moving traffic will get you killed, and likely cause high-speed car collisions, possibly hurting or killing many people. It would be dumb to do this, and you should not be generally be allowed to do this, because of the impact on others. This is not a political statement, it is acknowledgement of a reality, and risks. If you cannot agree to this basic statement, then it is time for you to leave this thread.

As far as this discussion is concerned, this logic applies to large gatherings of people at the current time. Calling it dumb is not politics. It is an acknowledgement of the risks involved. If that's a problem for you, it is time for you to leave this thread.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

[Oops! posted as mod posted. I can delete if this violates the mod?]

I've seen a couple reports (some posted upthread) that coronavirus infections could be far more widely spread-- and therefore much less lethal-- than initially thought. I've seen critiques of some of these referencing the questionable reliability of the tests, but even so, a more than order of magnitude difference from initial estimates is a pretty eye-popping claim.

But my question is:
How does this claim square with how the thing has exploded in NYC or Italy, and very clearly overwhelmed medical systems? How does a new virus that is "only as dangerous as flu" generate such massive numbers of critical patients and deaths?

My point is just this: even if the lethality number is lower than anticipated, there still appears to be something about it that makes it worth worrying about. (Sorry, I have exactly zero of the proper vocabulary or knowledge to ask these questions more clearly.)

 

[Lem23]

If it were only Bill Gates saying something, then that would be one thing. With all the world's authorities agreed on the danger of this virus, though, your point is compelte crap, just like the dangerous nonsense you've been peddling here.

Some people on this forum have been grappling with coronavirus. Some are at risk of losing loved ones and friends. A very close friend of mine just lost his daughter (a nurse) to coronavirus. You do realise you're deletediing allover the grief of people like him, right? That the crap you're spouting has an actual effect on the world, and that you, directly, will be responsible for large numbers of deaths if you continue with this idiocy?

Get a deleted grip. Imbecile.

And yes, feel free to report me. At least me aptly describing your deleted ludicrous bulldeleted is only going to lead to your poor feelings being hurt and me possibly getting banned from a roleplaying forum. Your bollocks is getting actual people killed.

 

[Deset Gled]

If you want to discuss epidemiologists I suggest you look in Dr Ioannides of Stanford.

Dr. Ioannides has made a lot of statements that we are making choices based on limited information about COVID, which is apparent to anyone who has been paying the slightest bit of attention to the availability of testing for the disease.

More importantly, he thinks it's a pandemic:

"The absolute risk of COVID-19 death for people ≥80 years old ranged from approximately 1 in 6,000 in Germany to 1 in 420 in Spain. "

"Strategies focusing specifically on protecting high-risk elderly individuals should be considered in managing the pandemic. "

Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters

OBJECTIVE To evaluate the relative risk of COVID-19 death in people <65 years old versus older individuals in the general population, to provide estimates of absolute risk of COVID-19 death at the population level, and to understand what proportion of COVID-19 deaths occur in non-elderly people...

www.medrxiv.org

I'm not going to bother looking up any more information for you unless you actually provide evidence for your position instead of just spouting random names.

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see Umbran's post before I posted this. I'll stop and will remove this post if requested.

 

[FrozenNorth]

If you want to discuss epidemiologists I suggest you look in Dr Ioannides of Stanford.

I read him. On March 17, he stated that the pandemic may have been overblown. According to his estimate based on the Diamond Princess Cruise ship, there could be only 10,000 deaths in the US, and therefore that these deaths should be weighed against the effect of a longterm lockdown.

As of today, April 21st, there are 42,900 deaths in the US and the rate is not currently dropping. Dr Ionnidis was mistaken. It happens.

I discovered all this with a 5-minute Google search. So the question is, why are you spreading out of date misinformation? Why do you care so much about this that you will argue that protective measures are overblown, but care so little that you won’t verify the information you provide?

 

[Sadras]

If it were only Bill Gates saying something, then that would be one thing. With all the world's authorities agreed on the danger of this virus, though, your point is compelte crap, just like the dangerous nonsense you've been peddling here.

Some people on this forum have been grappling with coronavirus. Some are at risk of losing loved ones and friends. A very close friend of mine just lost his daughter (a nurse) to coronavirus. You do realise you're shittng all over the grief of people like him, right? That the crap you're spouting has an actual effect on the world, and that you, directly, will be responsible for large numbers of deaths if you continue with this idiocy?

Get a naughty word grip. Imbecile.

And yes, feel free to report me. At least me aptly describing your naughty word ludicrous naughty word is only going to lead to your poor feelings being hurt and me possibly getting banned from a roleplaying forum. Your bollocks is getting actual people killed.

I never report I do not think that helps discourse. You and some others here misunderstand me.
I never said that COVID-19 does not exist. I never said that a COVID-19 infection cannot lead to death. I also never compared it to the common flu.

My issue is with the stifling of opposing/challenging views - whether they come from epidemiologists, microbiologists, other doctors or non-doctors. Do you take issue with this?

 

[Deset Gled]

Not everyone agrees with the measures taken by their governments, some do not believe COVID-19 should be considered a pandemic.

My issue is with the stifling of opposing/challenging views - whether they come from epidemiologists, microbiologists, other doctors or non-doctors. Do you take issue with this?

There is a difference between questioning authority and questioning if a global pandemic is actually a pandemic. Many of us here know people who have fallen ill or even died as a result of COVID19. There is no question that the threat is real. You have crossed the line from legitimate discussion to espousing falsehoods that are literally dangerous.

Yes. I take issue with this.

 

[Morrus]

Maybe. What is dangerous though is a worldwide lockdown and censorship on voices.

I'm going to be even clearer. DO NOT post in the thread again. I am not going to permit my forum to be used to spread dangerous misinformation which could harm people.

 

[Imaculata]

Mod Note:

Can we please not get into mocking people? Thanks.

I wasn't mocking them. I was pointing out how scary it is to see people defending such a dangerous idea. All it seems to take is a couple of right leaning news anchors to yell "They are taking away your freedoms", to get dozens of people rattled to defend an irrational position.

It seems an increasing number of people are convinced that COVID19 is either a hoax, or some evil democrat plot to bash the president. The fact that every country in the world is struggling with thousands of deaths right now, seems to be conveniently ignored by some of these people.

And that worries me a lot.