D&D 5E Kara Tur vs Tarkir vs Kamigawa vs Plane of Mountains and Seas vs Ikoria

[gyor]

View attachment 121377

This is a map of Kara-tur.

I'm going to say it frankly; this completely lacks imagination. This is pretty obvious;y China/Mongolia/Japan, throw some Asian-sounding words in and change the coasts a bit.

This isn't a setting; it's a location. TSR needed a place where they could write a bunch of adventures where you could be a samurai, or a ninja, and this is what they made. There is little love here in it's creation, compared the work done by Greenwood for the Sword Coast, or even Gygax for Greyhawk, or Brommels for Dark Sun.

This isn't a problem unique to TSR; RPGs in the 80-90s are famous for having a unique European-inspired setting, and then adding a "Oh that's just China way in the East!" I mean, Tolkien himself started that tradition (Khand). And Warhammer Fantasy called theirs Cathay!

Compare this to a modern example; I've been reading a book called Monstress, within its own heavily-Asian inspired setting, and having an Asian writer and illustrator. Look at its map;

View attachment 121378

You can see the inspirations of course; the wall is obvious. But overall, this is a much more original world, and has a purpose for storytelling.

I'm not saying this would make a better D&D setting; I am saying, that if we want a better setting for an Asian audience, we should just recreate these old ones. Kara-tur could be used, but I'd like the IP handed to Asian writers, with the freedom to recreate that place from top-to-bottom, including the map itself (it's post Sundering, who cares).

But if we are just setting out to recreate Oriental Adventures, I'm not interested.

There is an absolute ton of love that went into Kara Tur, do some research into the people that wrote and the setting before insulting them like that.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

There is an absolute ton of love that went into Kara Tur, do some research into the people that wrote and the setting before insulting them like that.

Dude, read the fricken names of the titles of the Oriental Adventure modules;

1. Swords of the Daimyo
2. Night of the Seven Swords
3. Ochimo, the Spirit Warrior
4. Blood of the Yakuza
5. Mad Monkey vs. the Dragon Claws
6. Ronin Challenge
7. Test of the Samurai

Come on. You're going to tell me that this isn't lazy? They're just recycling the most generic terms from Japanese/Chinese history and fantasy!

Like, look at a map of Kara-tur's not-Japan;

This is a joke. Telling me that these writers "did their research" when they're practically copying Japan wholesale is really rich.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't even know where to start with this. Good grief. Cormyr is certainly not "Medieval France" in any way. You can make a strong case for "generic medieval chivalric fantasy Western Europe", but that's about it.

The Moonshae Isles are pretty much "Celtopia", and not based on the British Isles as much as vague 1980s notions of "Celtic Identity", but there's a lot of other random nonsense going on as well (including pirates and vikings).

Amn's basic concept definitely owes a bit to late 1400s Spain but it's all over the place, it's not sure whether it's Moorish or Christian-style Spain, for example, with nods to both but leaning distinctly Moorish in aesthetic and so on, there's no sign of an inquisition-equivalent that I'm aware of, and the political structure, names, and general way it operates have very little in common any real-world place.

I could go on. You keep saying "fantasy version" and that's just totally misleading. "Loosely inspired by some limited aspects of" is not a "fantasy version. The Empire in Warhammer Fantasy is an actual "fantasy version" of The Holy Roman Empire (equally Tilea = Italy, Bretonnia = Arthurian France and so on). These are like they stole a few cultural elements and then filled in the rest with crazy Forgotten Realms stuff. They're not "Fantasy versions" in any meaningful sense.

This is actually a pretty good rundown of what I like about Greenwood's Forgotten Realms!

 

[Parmandur]

They've barely filled out the 5E FR beyond the Sword coast (unlike in 2E), so I don't think there's a desperate thirst for more FR stuff.

TBF, the Sword Coast alone is the size of Europe, and they are filling it in bit by bit. They aren't likely to leave the Sword Coast for a bit, certainly not as far afield as Kara-Tur, but FR is being attended to.

 

[gyor]

Dude, read the fricken names of the titles of the Oriental Adventure modules;

1. Swords of the Daimyo
2. Night of the Seven Swords
3. Ochimo, the Spirit Warrior
4. Blood of the Yakuza
5. Mad Monkey vs. the Dragon Claws
6. Ronin Challenge
7. Test of the Samurai

Come on. You're going to tell me that this isn't lazy? They're just recycling the most generic terms from Japanese/Chinese history and fantasy!

Like, look at a map of Kara-tur's not-Japan;

View attachment 121383

This is a joke. Telling me that these writers "did their research" when they're practically copying Japan wholesale is really rich.

Its a sign they wanted to be accurate and respectful of Asian cultures. And other parts of Kara Tur are perhaps more imaginative their approach.

 

[Parmandur]

Btw unless I missed something, all the people here making that complaint are white, I have never seen single Asian EVER complain about Kara Tur.

Wow. Um, you have not looked very hard, if you haven't seen that. And I wouldn't assume nobody posting here is Asian: a lot of the people I know who play are Asian, and they don't tend to like this sort of cringey stuff.

 

[gyor]

Wow. Um, you have not looked very hard, if you haven't seen that. And I wouldn't assume nobody posting here is Asian: a lot of the people I know who play are Asian, and they don't tend to like this sort of cringey stuff.

They are free to speak up and there is nothing cringey about Kara Tur, nothing.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Its a sign they wanted to be accurate and respectful of Asian cultures. And other parts of Kara Tur are perhaps more imaginative their approach.

The irony.

 

[Parmandur]

They are free to speak up and there is nothing cringey about Kara Tur, nothing.

I mean, it made my wife cringe when she saw it in a used bookstore, so this is literally incorrect.

 

[Parmandur]

As to what I'd prefer to see...make something new, without old baggage, using Asian-American writers.

Tarkir works because it isn't set up to be an "Asian Setting," but a playground for three color Wedge gameplay that decided to use Central Asian aesthetics to provide something new for card art. This is more of a useable foundation for a solid D&D Setting.