D&D 5E Kara Tur vs Tarkir vs Kamigawa vs Plane of Mountains and Seas vs Ikoria

[jgsugden]

...And again, why only "from Eastern Europe"? Western Europe has not been treated any different.

Brain fart. Remove Eastern.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

The banality of Forgotten Realms continents mirroring real-world continents used to irk me a lot.

Then, I realized that it makes a lot of sense, because Ed Greenwood's original idea back when he started writing notes for his fantasy setting as a young kid was probably to imagine a world where all the legends, myths and fairy tales existed in parallel with the real world, and the "way" to that fantasy world had been... forgotten.

Therefore OF COURSE there is a Japan and a central america and an Africa in that fantasy world, and they are filled with the fantasies of real-world Japan, central America and Africa. Some things will look different, like the actual shapes of coasts, islands, mountains and countries, maybe just in the same way WE thought our shapes were different in the past (ever seen a geographic map from ancient times, how "wrong" it looks but not completely?), or maybe because the fantasy version of a region has to be somewhat different yet familiar even in geography just like the content i.e. the people, the beasts, the laws of nature etc. all are.

This "distorted mirror image of the real world" idea is nothing bad. It's simply another valid choice, mid-way between a completely original fantasy world (usually a noble design choice, but often difficult to pull if completely detached from established fantasy tropes), and having the REAL WORLD itself be the setting before adding a single supernatural twist (which is what 99% of supernatural-themed (not sci-fi) movies choose to do by the way).

I mean, I'd agree with you if this was consistent... but it's not.

What is Thay in our world? What is Chult? What is the Sword Coast? Sure there are nations and countries in our world with some similarities and inspirations, but these are not copy-pasted unlike much of Kara-tur.

I cannot say with authority that Cormyr is supposed to be France, or Waterdeep is Venice. I can say without a doubt that Shou Lung is China. And to me, that speaks to a lack of inspiration that a quality Asian-inspired D&D setting should have.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, I'd agree with you if this was consistent... but it's not.

What is Thay in our world? What is Chult? What is the Sword Coast? Sure there are nations and countries in our world with some similarities and inspirations, but these are not copy-pasted unlike much of Kara-tur.

I cannot say with authority that Cormyr is supposed to be France, or Waterdeep is Venice. I can say without a doubt that Shou Lung is China. And to me, that speaks to a lack of inspiration that a quality Asian-inspired D&D setting should have.

It's almost like you can tell which areas were designed by Ed Greenwood, and which sundry TSR authors inserted (Moonshaes, Old Empires, Maztica, Hordelands, Al-Quadim, Kara-Tur...)...

 

[Tonguez]

I added the Plane of Mountains and Seas to the title because I remembered MtG had one more Asian Themed setting, this one actually made by Asians, but it suffers from it's own breed of issues.

Has anyone here read or seen the Novoland stories/TV series? Novoland is a fictional shared world created back in 2000 by 7 Chinese fantasy writers who were inspired by Lord of the Rings to create an epic fantasy based on Chinese legend.
Novoland spans 3 continents - the prosperous Eastern Land, the barren northern Lands (home of the nomadic Eight Clans and a land of Giants) and Western land. Races include humans, giants, merfolk, spirits, winged folk and dwarfs, There are 30 books which span over 10000 years of history and about 16 dynasties.

There's also been a few live TV adaptions notably Tribes and Empires: Storm of Prophecy 2017 and Eagle Flag 2019

Apparently the Author collaboration has broken up, but I wonder if any of them could be approached to adapt their ideas to a fantasy RPG

 

[Urriak Uruk]

It's almost like you can tell which areas were designed by Ed Greenwood, and which sundry TSR authors inserted (Moonshaes, Old Empires, Maztica, Hordelands, Al-Quadim, Kara-Tur...)...

Exactly. Greenwood was creating his world since he was a kid, and his work has a certain passion to it... the stuff he didn't create is largely just someone else's project.

And that doesn't mean the product is bad; some of the Oriental Adventures can be fun. But there is a reason that the non-Greenwood material leans so heavily on other culture's archetype/tropes; to support those adventures.

 

[Parmandur]

Has anyone here read or seen the Novoland stories/TV series? Novoland is a fictional shared world created back in 2000 by 7 Chinese fantasy writers who were inspired by Lord of the Rings to create an epic fantasy based on Chinese legend.
Novoland spans 3 continents - the prosperous Eastern Land, the barren northern Lands (home of the nomadic Eight Clans and a land of Giants) and Western land. Races include humans, giants, merfolk, spirits, winged folk and dwarfs, There are 30 books which span over 10000 years of history and about 16 dynasties.

There's also been a few live TV adaptions notably Tribes and Empires: Storm of Prophecy 2017 and Eagle Flag 2019

Apparently the Author collaboration has broken up, but I wonder if any of them could be approached to adapt their ideas to a fantasy RPG

There's someDaniel Kwan's work:

Exactly. Greenwood was creating his world since he was a kid, and his work has a certain passion to it... the stuff he didn't create is largely just someone else's project.

And that doesn't mean the product is bad; some of the Oriental Adventures can be fun. But there is a reason that the non-Greenwood material leans so heavily on other culture's archetype/tropes; to support those adventures.

I also quite enjoy much of it: but yeah, you can tell.

 

[gyor]

One … of dozens and dozens of things on the google search. Come on. Don't put up paper arguments.You do understand what a prototype is, don't you?

Heck, let's go to Wikipedia to see if there is anything there connecting the dots between OA and Kara Tur... Kara-Tur - Wikipedia Huh. So Kara-Tur originated in OA, and was described in modules based upon OA, but …. OA is not the actual true source of Kara-Tur.Because we have a plethora of European based fantasy?Great. What you want, and what offends people, may sometimes be the same thing. In this instance, a large number of people have been offended by the tendency for Western writers to comingle cultures from Eastern Europe and not appreciate what makes them cultures, amongst a plethora of other concerns.

I'm familiar with the fact that Kara Tur origined in OA thanks. But it was more fully detailed in the Kara Tur box set and parts in the Hordelands Box Set.

 

[gyor]

Anyways moving past Kara Tur for a moment, none have made any arguements why Tarkir, Kamigawa or Plane of Mountains and Seas, why would they be better or not?

 

[gyor]

I just wanted this thread to be a fun thread were we'd compare the cool things to be found in different settings and make reasonable arguement why this or that setting would be better.

Instead it's been used as an excuse by some to slander the good names of a lot of folks and try to make them unfairly look like racists. Very disappointing.

 

[Parmandur]

Anyways moving past Kara Tur for a moment, none have made any arguements why Tarkir, Kamigawa or Plane of Mountains and Seas, why would they be better or not?

Sure, I did just a few posts ago: Tarkir is more well suited for a full Setting project as it is built around exploring the themes around Tricolor Mana mixtures, with the Asian aspect being an organic aside rather than the only reason for the world building