D&D 5E 5e most conservative edition yet? (In terms of new settings)

[darjr]

Yea they were in hock so deep because of a long list of decisions

 

[Shiroiken]

One major issue with settings is that TSR created a bajillion of them. Then they discovered they were competing against themselves. Putting out a periodic setting book (or licensing one) keeps some interest, but it also keeps it from feeding on itself. As for completely new settings, why bother when you've got a gigantic supply of existing settings under your control?

 

[QuentinGeorge]

What does drop mean in this context? Stop producing material for? If so yes they dropped loads.

Also, come on, Spelljammer's last product was in 1993, how is that "may have been post 97 takeover"? You can look this stuff up you know?

Al Qadim's last product was 1998, but that was a very random 32-page adventure that came out of nowhere. Until then, the line had been dead since 1994.

Not sure what "Kara The" is? Kara Tur? The last OA book in 1990. Thats barely even 2E and you're saying it might have been "post 97"? Man whaaaaa? Am I missing something?

Typing on my mobile leads to interesting typos, so yes, I was referring to Kara Tur. And a whole sentence of mine was left off - I was actually pointing out Kara Tur, Spelljammer and Al Qadim as the only 2nd edition settings dropped pre WoTC buyout. So, the reverse of how my post ended up reading. (But it appears I should have added Mystara to the 95 deaths as well - it may be that TSR's financial issues caused the deaths)

Kara Tur and Al Qadim were part of the Forgotten Realms world anyway, so they still got references in Realms books anyway.

On the other hand Greyhawk survived until the end (with a few fallow years), Dragonlance did too (though it switched systems, from 2nd edition to SAGA and eventually back to 2nd edition (dual rules), Planescape was killed by WoTC, as was Ravenloft and Birthright was killed off prior to 3E. Council of Wyrms and Jakandor were never meant to more than one-shots from what I can see.

So it looks like TSR killed off a few as it was going broke, and WoTC killed the last few, except for the ever-favored Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk (most likely because Peter Adkinson was a fan).

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Typing on my mobile leads to interesting typos, so yes, I was referring to Kara Tur. And a whole sentence of mine was left off - I was actually pointing out Kara Tur, Spelljammer and Al Qadim as the only 2nd edition settings dropped pre WoTC buyout. So, the reverse of how my post ended up reading. (But it appears I should have added Mystara to the 95 deaths as well - it may be that TSR's financial issues caused the deaths)

Kara Tur and Al Qadim were part of the Forgotten Realms world anyway, so they still got references in Realms books anyway.

On the other hand Greyhawk survived until the end (with a few fallow years), Dragonlance did too (though it switched systems, from 2nd edition to SAGA and eventually back to 2nd edition (dual rules), Planescape was killed by WoTC, as was Ravenloft and Birthright was killed off prior to 3E. Council of Wyrms and Jakandor were never meant to more than one-shots from what I can see.

So it looks like TSR killed off a few as it was going broke, and WoTC killed the last few, except for the ever-favored Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk (most likely because Peter Adkinson was a fan).

Ah that makes a lot more sense, that was a bit of random-looking claim!

Man SAGA was quite a thing. I loved the system in a lot of ways, but I dunno if anyone really loved the later-Dragonlance setting.

Poor old Birthright. If that had come out in like, 1990 or 1991 instead of 1995, I think that could have been absolutely huge. By 1995 White Wolf and other companies were so huge though that "alternative" AD&D settings that weren't deeply zeitgeist-y (Planescape was perfect mid-1990s zeitgeist and Dark Sun was pretty good on that too) weren't going to cut it.

I think that's one thing that sometimes gets lost in the criticism of TSR. WotC has never faced an environment as challenging or dynamic as TSR did. They naughty word up in loads of ways, TSR, but at the same time, the seas they were sailing were massively choppier. White Wolf and other people put huge pressure on TSR by coming up with RPGs that really spoke to a new generation of players in a way AD&D was literally never going to. TSR was stuck on the back foot because 2E was one of the last of an older generation of RPGs, design-wise, something only a new edition could really have fixed, and that itself would have caused big problems in such a turbulent landscape.

WotC bought TSR at exactly the right time and frankly 3E got pretty lucky, because White Wolf had by then lost several key creatives (to various weird spats and so on), and was kind of misfiring. VtR and the nWoD books were more elegant and well-designed (both in setting and rules) than the oWoD, but they didn't capture the spirit of the age in the same way, and they split the audience at a crucial time (I knew a lot of people who just stuck with VtM and so on). A number of other publishers seemed to have big problems of their own, or made really bad decisions (R Talsorian, for example, and FASA), all in part because of our good friend Magic: The Gathering, which was part of the extremely choppy waters, and lead to a lot of bad decisions from others (including doubling down on Dragon Dice from TSR).

So going into the 2000s, WotC had calmer seas, and could release a version of D&D that didn't feel hopelessly dated. The OGL was cherry-on-top genius and I take my hat off to Dancey and the others who came up with that, because it basically steamrolled non-d20 games by strongly encouraging people to try and make something compatible with 3E and get a piece of that pie. RPG stores which used to be diverse as hell, with AD&D stuff being like 20% of what they carried, tops, over a year or three became 50-60% D&D 3E and d20 products. Given that virtually all the real competition had already self-sabotaged, it was easy win, and I think WotC can be over-congratulated for it. A lot of what they did was extremely crude, like just dumping huge numbers of splatbooks 24-7 (and I'm sure they had plenty of bad sellers in there, relatively speaking).

 

[Xenonnonex]

What Wizards have been releasing have been themed. The assumption is they will continue to release books based on themes. Rather than focus on specific settings. As long as a gap exists or a need exists they will eventually release an appropriate book for it.

 

[MGibster]

I think people need to stop using 2nd edition as a yardstick when it really was the outlier. Ever other edition has been 3 or fewer settings.

Bingo. I have a lot of good memories of 2nd edition with all its settings as well as a number of other support products. I used to own a big pack of treasure maps they released for use with D&D and I really miss stuff like that. But it's 2020 not 1993 and things have changed over the last twenty-seven years. I suppose it's always possible we'll see another golden age of settings but I don't expect it.

 

[jayoungr]

Maybe WotC realized that they can never please everybody, and decided to leave the bulk of setting creation to homebrew and third parties? There are loads of excellent new 5E settings out there (I own several thanks to Kickstarter)--just not published by WotC.

ETA: Here's a list of many of them:

D&D 5E - List the Third-Party 5th Edition Campaign Settings

Below is a list of existing published campaign settings. To qualify to be on this list, there are three requirements: it must be by a third party publisher, it must be published and for sale (if we listed all the fan creations, the list would be impossible), and it must be for 5th Edition D&D...

www.enworld.org

 

[MGibster]

They didn't go from great to selling the company overnight.
They went bankrupt in '97 but were in a bad way during '95 and '96 as well.
Lots of companies file for bankruptcy and recover slowly. TSR filed and was immediately sold. They were in such a bad way recovery wasn't possible.

They famously wasted money on bad games. Like the Buck Rogers RPG and Dragon Dice.

I have to agree with Jester David here as the more I learn about the inner workings of TSR the more I'm surprised it took them that long to go out of business. TSR just happened to be one of those fortunate companies able to generate enough revenue to offset their poor management for a number of years.

 

[Aldarc]

But Nentir Vale is really just a watering down of Greyhawk cum Forgotten Realms, so very low risk.

I can't say that I agree with this assessment of Nentir Vale at all. Most of the gods come from Greyhawk (e.g., Pelor, Kord, etc.), but the Nentir Vale is honestly far more mythic and heroic in scope than Greyhawk. The Points of Light does not just set the tone for the Vale itself, but also for the entire cosmos. It is the primary D&D setting that embraces the mythological motif of the Chaoskampf where Gods combat chaos and entrust mortals to assist in the cosmic struggle. It's probably more similar to Scarred Lands in that it's a world reeling from the mythic conflict of the Dawn War, and the characters are meant to rise the ranks and engage the cosmological conflict that forms the backdrop of the setting.

If WotC ever decided to rejuvenate the 2e Historical Sourcebooks, Theros = kinda Classical Greece, and Nerath = kinda 'leaving the Dark Age'.

Yeah, I got post-Western Roman Empire ("Dark Ages") vibes from Nerath / Nentir Vale.

 

[Xenonnonex]

Maybe WotC realized that they can never please everybody, and decided to leave the bulk of setting creation to homebrew and third parties? There are loads of excellent 5E settings out there (I own several thanks to Kickstarter)--just not published by WotC.

The inevitable nerdrage killed off their forums.