D&D 5E WotC's Jeremy Crawford on D&D Races Going Forward

On Twitter, Jeremy Crawford discussed the treatment of orcs, Vistani, drow and others in D&D, and how WotC plans to treat the idea of 'race' in D&D going forward. In recent products (Eberron and Wildemount), the mandatory evil alignment was dropped from orcs, as was the Intelligence penalty.

@ThinkingDM Look at the treatment orcs received in Eberron and Exandria. Dropped the Intelligence debuff and the evil alignment, with a more acceptable narrative. It's a start, but there's a fair argument for gutting the entire race system.

The orcs of Eberron and Wildemount reflect where our hearts are and indicate where we’re heading.

@vorpaldicepress I hate to be "that guy", but what about Drow, Vistani, and the other troublesome races and cultures in Forgotten Realms (like the Gur, another Roma-inspired race)? Things don't change over night, but are these on the radar?

The drow, Vistani, and many other folk in the game are on our radar. The same spirit that motivated our portrayal of orcs in Eberron is animating our work on all these peoples.

@MileyMan1066 Good. These problems need to be addressed. The variant features UA could have a sequel that includes notes that could rectify some of the problems and help move 5e in a better direction.

Addressing these issues is vital to us. Eberron and Wildemount are the first of multiple books that will face these issues head on and will do so from multiple angles.

@mbriddell I'm happy to hear that you are taking a serious look at this. Do you feel that you can achieve this within the context of Forgotten Realms, given how establised that world's lore is, or would you need to establish a new setting to do this?

Thankfully, the core setting of D&D is the multiverse, with its multitude of worlds. We can tell so many different stories, with different perspectives, in each world. And when we return to a world like FR, stories can evolve. In short, even the older worlds can improve.

@SlyFlourish I could see gnolls being treated differently in other worlds, particularly when they’re a playable race. The idea that they’re spawned hyenas who fed on demon-touched rotten meat feels like they’re in a different class than drow, orcs, goblins and the like. Same with minotaurs.

Internally, we feel that the gnolls in the MM are mistyped. Given their story, they should be fiends, not humanoids. In contrast, the gnolls of Eberron are humanoids, a people with moral and cultural expansiveness.

@MikeyMan1066 I agree. Any creature with the Humanoid type should have the full capacity to be any alignmnet, i.e., they should have free will and souls. Gnolls... the way they are described, do not. Having them be minor demons would clear a lot of this up.

You just described our team's perspective exactly.

As a side-note, the term 'race' is starting to fall out of favor in tabletop RPGs (Pathfinder has "ancestry", and other games use terms like "heritage"); while he doesn't comment on that specifically, he doesn't use the word 'race' and instead refers to 'folks' and 'peoples'.

 

[Haldrik]

As for strength - I'm assuming no one would say weight classes in sports bad because someone might replace bantam-weight or heavy-weight with a racial group. Would anyone say it is bad that Gnomes are inately much smaller than Dragonborn in terms of height or weight? It feels like basic physics/physiology kind of handles that?

If it doesn't, then are faster, nimbler, more resilient, longer life expectancy, able to meditate, resistance to charm and sleep, and more enduring equally as problematic for some racial/ethnic replacement? (If so, there goes sized based movement rates and a bunch of the special abilities).

Magical strength is magic.

Regarding natural strength. I would rather correlate Size with Constitution, so that if a player wants to build a heavyweight or Large character, they need a minimum Constitution score. Size increases carrying capacity.

 

[Cadence]

Magical strength is magic.

And if gnomes or halflings magic is being preternaturally strong as part of their thing (as described for that particular world), that's just fine by me. If their magic involves being attuned with nature or eating eight meals a day and not gaining weight, then it would strike me as odd that they can be as strong as the races whose magic is actually about being strong.

Regarding natural strength. I would rather correlate Size with Constitution, so that if a player wants to build a heavyweight or Large character, they need a minimum Constitution score.

So big races would have to be more enduring? Is that particularly less problematic game wise, substituting d&d race for real group name-wise, or more realistic than strength?

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Dude, people are making arguments like "But it's history!" and it's as dumb here as it is for Confederate statues. Look at the damn card. If you can't see how white supremacists use it as a symbol then don't bother replying.

The cross MUCH more a symbol of white supremacy, and is indeedon this card. Do you think that crosses and artwork with crosses should be banned from games?

Similarly, do you think the US should go the way of Germany and ban swastikas from WW2 games?

 

[Cadence]

The cross MUCH more a symbol of white supremacy, and is indeedon this card. Do you think that crosses and artwork with crosses should be banned from games?

Similarly, do you think the US should go the way of Germany and ban swastikas from WW2 games?

It's not just the cross. It's the combination of the name and artwork and/or effect. There are other cards in the game with crusade as part of the name. There are other cards in the game with a similar effect but with a different name and non-real-world-artwork. There's another card in the game with a knight and a cross on it that destroys black creatures. None of those were banned.

I'm guessing that even most folks in the states who hate this things don't want to overturn the 1st amendment to get rid of them.

I remember seeing Hogans Heroes on TV in Germany a few decades ago. Is that still ok to be shown?

 

[TheSword]

It’s a stupid card.

I don’t play magic, think the crusades were more complex than is often portrayed, love the myth of the Knights Templar and yet I can still see it’s a stupid card.

As Dire Bear and others say it’s a confluence of many things that together make it so very very stupid. It’s kind of hard not to worry if you can’t see that.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I remember seeing Hogans Heroes on TV in Germany a few decades ago. Is that still ok to be shown?

Omg there should be a law requiring it to be broadcast. And watched.

“I know noTHING!”

 

[Haldrik]

So big races would have to be more enduring? Is that particularly less problematic game wise, substituting d&d race for real group name-wise, or more realistic than strength?

In the Monster Manual, big creatures invariably have higher Constitution. No surprise here.

It is less problematic with regard to racism, because the player building a character chooses how big they want their character to be. If they want a Gnome with giantism, it can be done. And if they want a massive Orc, they need to invest the Constitution (by choosing Barbarian or other Con class or feat or perhaps Concentration skill) to make it happen.

All of this about freewill choice, as opposed to racial supremacy.

At the same time, the Players Handbook can give a "quick build" Rock Gnome, which a player can easily swap out for different traits and class.

Likewise, if the DM wants to customize an ethnic group for a particular setting, this is very easy to do.

And all of it will make sense. Wizards will be Intelligent, regardless of ethnicity, and ethnicities that favor Wizard will tend to have higher Intelligence on average.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

The cross MUCH more a symbol of white supremacy, and is indeedon this card. Do you think that crosses and artwork with crosses should be banned from games?

Similarly, do you think the US should go the way of Germany and ban swastikas from WW2 games?

It's not just the cross, it's the title, and the burning foreground, and the "White gets plus" that all add up to something that is obviously used as a symbol of white supremacy.

Saying I'm against the cross in general is like saying a KKK cross burning is the same as the cross in a church.

Seriously I give up explaining this to people who clearly don't care, and just leave Wizard of the Coast's official statement on the banning;

Depictions of Racism in Magic

Today, we will be changing the multiverse ID and removing the Gatherer card image for the card Invoke Prejudice, originally printed in 1994. The card is racist and made even worse by the multiverse ID it was unfortunately codified with years ago. There's no place for racism in our game, nor anywhere else.
But to that point, it should never have been published nor placed in the Gatherer. And for that we are sorry. The events of the past weeks and the ongoing conversation about how we can better support people of color have caused us to examine ourselves, our actions, and our inactions. We appreciate everyone helping us to recognize when we fall short. We should have been better, we can be better, and we will be better.
To that end, we will be removing a number of images from our database that are racist or culturally offensive, including:

• Invoke Prejudice
• Cleanse
• Stone-Throwing Devils
• Pradesh Gypsies
• Jihad
• Imprison
• Crusade

Replacing those card images will be the following statement:
"We have removed this card image from our database due to its racist depiction, text, or combination thereof. Racism in any form is unacceptable and has no place in our games, nor anywhere else."
Additionally, these cards will be banned in all sanctioned tournament play.
There's much more work to be done as we continue to make our games, communities, and company more inclusive. Know that we work every day to be better and that we hear you. We look forward to sharing more of our plans with you as our games and organization evolve.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

Thanks for the link, but . . . . nowhere in the article does is state that racist Magic players are using these cards as symbols for their beliefs.

These 7 cards have been removed from the game because the combination of card name, card art, flavor text, and game effect create racist connotations that don't belong in the game. One card, "Invoke Prejudice", the card artist reportedly was very intentional with his racist artwork, but there is zero evidence that the game designers or set editors were also being deliberately racist. The card ID number for that card is used as a coded racist message, but was randomly assigned to "Invoke Prejudice".

Unless you can provide some evidence that the game designers at WotC were deliberately creating racist cards and/or that racist Magic players are using the cards to support their beliefs . . . . . well, I just can't buy it.

As I said upthread though, WotC was right to remove the 7 cards and probably should have done so long before the current BLM protests brought these issues to the forefront. I'm glad these 7 cards won't be reprinted in the game and won't be displayed in Arena (online version of Magic) or in WotC's online card database.

It's really not my job to convince you. If you don't believe it, fine. Other posters here have shared their stories on how white supremacists have used the card.

 

[Cadence]

And all of it will make sense. Wizards will be Intelligent, regardless of ethnicity, and ethnicities that favor Wizard will tend to have higher Intelligence on average.

I'm not seeing how having some ethnicities have higher intelligence on average causes much less trouble than having some races have a penalty. The later allows the range to be the same and opens everything up to all players -- but it keeps the same stereotype.