D&D 5E Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]

[dave2008]

It's not needed in this universe, why in any other?

The implication is that there are not good gods in this universe either. The argument is if there is a good god(s), then why is there evil?

PS. This is treading a little to close to forum rules so that is all I am going to say on this subject.

 

[dave2008]

What about the idea instead that "Evil Devils and Evil Demons are necessary to explain why evil stuff happens in a universe where Gods are good?" Why does it have to be other Gods, instead of just devils and demons?

It doesn't have to be evil gods, but then the Devils and Demons must be a significant threat to the gods or you should explain why the good gods haven't just wiped out the demons and devils.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

With all of this talk happening about the various peoples of D&D and whether they are inherently evil and is it due to their gods they worship and so on... it made me take a look at the gods themselves. And I realized that having a pantheon that includes "evil" gods seems to intrude and trod upon unnecessarily the path of devils, demons and other outer planar archenemies.

There is not reason why you need to have any gods at all in your setting. Dark Sun doesn't, Eberron kind of doesn't.

And if you have gods, there is no reason why their worshipers should match them in alignment. Many polytheistic religions where about appeasing or currying favour with gods, not promoting their moral philosophy. One could easily envision a setting in which all the gods where evil and ordinary people are constantly trying to buy them off.

 

[dave2008]

One could easily envision a setting in which all the gods where evil and ordinary people are constantly trying to buy them off.

That is essentially Call of Cthulhu. Except you might be trying to hide from them as much as get favors from them.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That is essentially Call of Cthulhu. Except you might be trying to hide from them as much as get favors from them.

The Great Old Ones are largely indifferent to worshippers. I'm envisioning a bunch of gods who are greedy and selfish, and not at all alien, and want to exploit mortals for what they can get from them.

 

[dave2008]

The Great Old Ones are largely indifferent to worshippers. I'm envisioning a bunch of gods who are greedy and selfish, and not at all alien, and want to exploit mortals for what they can get from them.

OK, I was referring to this part: "...all the gods where evil and ordinary people are constantly trying to buy them off." That is essentially true in CoC. But I get what your saying.

 

[Cadence]

If there are no evil deities, how do you explain all the evil things happening in the world?

Evil gods are necessary to explain why evil stuff happens in a universe where other gods are good.

Maybe the world is a training ground for souls, to purify themselves (hopefully) so that they can ascend to the realms of the gods. And maybe purification is a path that has to be chosen by free will - leaving open the option for some to choose evil. Maybe the very nature of a physical world is open to suffering which can cause some to make the wrong choice of evil or the other choices to endure it or try and fix it. And maybe folks who mess up and choose evil are reincarnated and get to try again. Viewed from the lens of eternity that the gods see through and no the mortals have, is the relatively short time of suffering by those who live all that different than homework assignments or dealing with a bully that a child might do or being grounded and missing a pivotal teenage event or having to fall asleep in your own bedroom for the first time?

Maybe the soul is like an RPG player, and the person whose soul it is just a player character, and the players keep playing in the world with characters until they ascend to the land of DMs.

 

[Derren]

Maybe the world is a training ground for souls, to purify themselves (hopefully) so that they can ascend to the realms of the gods. And maybe purification is a path that has to be chosen by free will - leaving open the option for some to choose evil. Maybe the very nature of a physical world is open to suffering which can cause some to make the wrong choice of evil or the other choices to endure it or try and fix it. And maybe folks who mess up and choose evil are reincarnated and get to try again. Viewed from the lens of eternity that the gods see through and no the mortals have, is the relatively short time of suffering by those who live all that different than homework assignments or dealing with a bully that a child might do or being grounded and missing a pivotal teenage event or having to fall asleep in your own bedroom for the first time?

Maybe the soul is like an RPG player, and the person whose soul it is just a player character, and the players keep playing in the world with characters until they ascend to the land of DMs.

Its not only about evil actions by sentient beings but also random events perceived as evil. Floods, draughts, plagues, etc.

 

[Eltab]

This adds a level of complexity that goes beyond the good vs evil or the law vs chaos usual axis that we see. The country vs country ( or simply culture vs culture) can also be a very fun axis to play. Seeing two LG paladins fight each other is interesting, as neither wants to slay the other but they are bound to fight as their respective countries are at war.

The chapter of Bullfinch's Mythology on Charlemagne"s Paladins would be an inspiration here. Charlemagne raises an army and sets it a goal - conquer city X or province Z - provides a few Paladins as commander or unstoppable "tank squad" ... and reads the reports that the Paladins call off the battle so they can have a personal duel with their opposites in the other army, pound each other into mutual exhaustion, and terminate the campaign with a truce, objective unmet. But the participants had a feast and complemented each others' battle skill and chivalry, before they went home - so they think they've won!

The tactitions, strategists, and organizers in the group will climb the walls, but the "I want to roll initiative" players will have a blast.

 

[Helldritch]

The chapter of Bullfinch's Mythology on Charlemagne"s Paladins would be an inspiration here. Charlemagne raises an army and sets it a goal - conquer city X or province Z - provides a few Paladins as commander or unstoppable "tank squad" ... and reads the reports that the Paladins call off the battle so they can have a personal duel with their opposites in the other army, pound each other into mutual exhaustion, and terminate the campaign with a truce, objective unmet. But the participants had a feast and complemented each others' battle skill and chivalry, before they went home - so they think they've won!

The tactitions, strategists, and organizers in the group will climb the walls, but the "I want to roll initiative" players will have a blast.

Exactly what I had in mind when I wrote my reply. I salute you, good sir!