D&D 5E Are "evil gods" necessary? [THREAD NECRO]

[Coroc]

It's for this reason that I liked the idea introduced in 4E that made Asmodeus and Lloth gods. With the game itself seemingly putting the idea of the gods above all the other potential enemies of the heroes... making at least a few of those devils and demons actual gods rose their groups up and gave them a bit more weight in my eyes personally.

As I've bandied about ideas for my own potential campaign world in the past, this question came up enough times that I tried a system wherein there weren't any pantheon of gods. Instead, there was one single unaligned overdeity that wasn't worshipped per se (a la Ao), and then all the beings actually worshipped by the peoples were the pantheons of Archangels (LG), Archfey (CG), Archdevils (LE) and Archdemons (CG). Each of them had their own domains they controlled and there wasn't a lot of overlap between them.

Since I've never actually run any games in my own setting (I keep using the existing ones already created because I'm ultimately lazy) I haven't seen how they work out in play. But I did like the idea that "evil cultists" were the devil worshippers and demon worshippers, not the ones who found divinity in storms or the ocean just because Talos and Umberlee were made "evil" for whatever reason.

4e was not the fist though, take Iuz, his demonic rank is that of a cambion, still on Oerth he has the powers and rank of a demigod, including the ability to grant spells to his followers. (2e)

 

[Paul Farquhar]

That’s the point. It’s not as if good gods of the sea are unheard of in real world cultures. I don’t think that most real world sea gods are even evil. Are you honestly arguing that the only possible flavor for sea god is Umberlee-flavored?

No, I'm arguing that Umberlee reflects the perception of the sea of the real world dwelling person who invented her (Ed Greenwood?).

 

[Flamestrike]

No, I'm arguing that Umberlee reflects the perception of the sea of the real world dwelling person who invented her (Ed Greenwood?).

Werent most historical deities of the Sea pretty... evil/ destructive/ capricious?

I mean the Sea is where the term 'she's a cruel mistress' came from.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Werent most historical deities of the Sea pretty... evil/ destructive/ capricious?

I mean the Sea is where the term 'she's a cruel mistress' came from.

No, but Ed Greenwood is a Canadian. and was probably more influenced by poetry and the arctic than real world religions.

Moana, drawing on Polynesian myth, portrays the sea as benevolent but capricious (I.e. chaotic good in D&D terms). To them the sea was a provider.

Neptune/Poseidon is probably uncaringly neutral in D&D terms.

 

[Flamestrike]

No, but Ed Greenwood is a Canadian. and was probably more influenced by poetry than real world religions.

I cant speak for Ed and what influences he had for Umberlee, but most people draw from somewhere. Most sailors mythology and tales about deities of the Sea IRL (Posideon etc) reflect a largely 'capricious, dangerous, unpredictable' vibe.

An alignment of CE for a sea goddess seems pretty apt.

That said, I can see CG churches of Uberlee easily enough. Those churches repudiate the 'tying up human sacrifices and tossing them into the ocean to drown' rituals, and more destructive aspects of the CE branch of the church, and focus on the Sea as a giver of life (commerce, sustenance etc) and a tool for exploration and the unknown.

They interpret the scriptures/ will of the deity/ dogma differently to the Evil members.

I can see LE members (plus clergy and indeed whole factions) of LG Torms faith, just as I can see Good aligned members and clergy of CE Talos' faith as well.

Illmater was Good aligned, and he had Evil clergy and followers who focussed on the torture/ mutilation/ flagellation aspect of the deity. They recieved spells just fine, and only found out how wrong their interpretation of Illmaters dogma was when Kelemvor turned them into wallpaper as being 'False' on their death.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

There is no reason why a tropical island dwelling culture in the Forgotten Realms couldn't worship a benevolent god of the sea. And FR does not say to anyone "your god aint real", so you could imagine different gods of the sea clashing as their worshipers clashed.

Which differs from Theros. Theros only has one god of the sea. If someone worships a different god of the sea, then that god isn't real.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

They interpret the scriptures/ will of the deity/ dogma differently to the Evil members.

The idea that worshipers of a god want to "follow the will of the deity" is drawn largely from certain currently popular real world religions. If you look at ancient world polytheism on which FR religion is based, its more about persuading the deity to support the will of the worshiper (via bribery).

 

[Flamestrike]

There is no reason why a tropical island dwelling culture in the Forgotten Realms couldn't worship a benevolent god of the sea. And FR does not say to anyone "your god aint real", so you could imagine different gods of the sea clashing as their worshipers clashed.

Which differs from Theros. Theros only has one god of the sea. If someone worships a different god of the sea, then that god isn't real.

Pretty sure Faerun is set up so when two gods with similar portfolios exist side by side, there is conflict and one deity 'dies'.

You could have an isolated pantheon I guess.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Pretty sure Faerun is set up so when two gods with similar portfolios exist side by side, there is conflict and one deity 'dies'.

You could have an isolated pantheon I guess.

There are plenty of examples of gods with similar portfolios who do not die, especially when those gods are of widely different alignments.

There have been attempts in some editions to "tidy up" the FR pantheon, but they fail. Those gods just won't stay dead.

 

[Flamestrike]

There are plenty of examples of gods [in Faerun] with similar portfolios who do not die, especially when those gods are of widely different alignments.

Such as?