D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[Xenonnonex]

seems like he’s trying to ask what it means to you.

I want balanced orcs. Which means can be evil. Yes.
Why the comparison to another ethnicity of human. Such a simplistic and unbecoming view. Especially with the examples given.

 

[Oofta]

What do you think nuance means.

If nuance means "orcs must be another ethnicity of human" that's not nuance. That's getting rid of a foundational concept of D&D.

If that's you're only answer I see no nuance, just "my way or the highway". Which also doesn't address the issue of other sentient creatures that have been portrayed as effectively always evil.

 

[Morrus]

If you want to now include civilian deaths then nobody can beat the 90 to 140 million or so victims of communism.

Even if you exclude the 20th century then your argument is invalid unless you can cite some numbers.

Why earth are you talking about victims of communism on EN World?

 

[Xenonnonex]

If nuance means "orcs must be another ethnicity of human" that's not nuance. That's getting rid of a foundational concept of D&D.

If that's you're only answer I see no nuance, just "my way or the highway". Which also doesn't address the issue of other sentient creatures that have been portrayed as effectively always evil.

Why did you make that conclusion without knowing much about Eberron orcs. Seems very odd. Again. I suggest reading the material first. Before making snap judgments.

 

[Oofta]

Why did you make that conclusion without knowing much about Eberron orcs. Seems very odd. Again. I suggest reading the material first. Before making snap judgments.

I have no desire to buy the book, I don't plan on running an Eberron campaign. If I am misrepresenting what the book does, can you explain what I have incorrect? Cliff Notes version is fine because all I've heard so far is that orcs are distinguished by only their culture and religion.

Anyone?

 

[Maxperson]

Why did you make that conclusion without knowing much about Eberron orcs. Seems very odd. Again. I suggest reading the material first. Before making snap judgments.

@Aldajust posted about Eberron orcs above and they sound just like humans. Products of their culture and history.

 

[Xenonnonex]

I have no desire to buy the book, I don't plan on running an Eberron campaign. If I am misrepresenting what the book does, can you explain what I have incorrect? Cliff Notes version is fine because all I've heard so far is that orcs are distinguished by only their culture and religion.

Anyone?

@Aldajust posted about Eberron orcs above and they sound just like humans. Products of their culture and history.

Have to sleep. If you different religion and culture means off human. That is too simplistic. But sure believe that.

 

[TheSword]

... no one is or has suggested that either.

However, in a setting where orcs are already established as evil by nature let’s leave them to be evil by nature. Or maybe end up addInt some lore where they were magically freed from that evil nature? Lots of potential ideas there.

do you think a single setting with orcs that are absolutely evil is okay?

I’d say not when the core setting is forgotten realms. It can be left to homebrew. The published settings should be inclusive.

Also if the only difference between orcs and humans is their evil, we should probably put some more effort into designing orcs.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Should have clarified. Second head. Church itself is good. But very complex. Great roleplaying opportunities. Without baggage.
I find the one note religions to be distasteful.
I suggest reading it.

I don't know what 'One Note Religions' are. In any case, It's hard avoid baggage. Some things strike home for some people more than others. Once again, I still find it interesting to explore as long as it's done in good taste. Making an adventure that directly insults the Pope or present day Caliphate or other holy person in a round-about way is insulting to anyone who respects any religion. OTOH, you cannot deny that there has been corruption in every religion at some point in history. Telling that kind of story is perfectly fine as long as people at the table are also fine with it. The Evil Church Leader is a trope but If you start making your corrupt Church of Pelor a mirror of Christian Catholicism, you'd better make sure your players are on-board.

I've played a game where Vecna was secret god behind 'The God of Light', which was a National God. It was a super-cool campaign. Lots of real-world parallels were drawn: there were Cardinals based on Virtues. Neat, but not for every player. The fact that Vecna was a 'pretender god' helped to keep the whole thing in perspective. But if my DM, out of game, kept spouting anti-religious rhetoric, I wouldn't play because I would understand that the game was just a forum for his own bigoted, ignorant views.

Part of the heritage of D&D is changing things to suit the needs of the table. Themes, mechanics; settings and homebrew.

I mentioned this before: I think WotC has to be very careful to highlight that this is a game that can be changed based on the table's needs. Here is a toolset, here are examples of creatures and locations, now go ahead and do with it what you want.

 

[Aldarc]

Yeah, it’s not as if the prior negative portrayal or stereotypes of Vistani are being preserved just because they exist in a pre-existing setting. It’s being changed for Ravenloft and whatever other settings Vistani may appear regardless of what prior lore said about them.