D&D General Two underlying truths: D&D heritage and inclusivity

[jayoungr]

Because in some settings it’s not an orc if it’s not an inherently evil monster.

Which settings are those?

Middle-Earth, arguably. (Though it's worth noting that Tolkien himself eventually became uncomfortable with the idea of inherent evil and played around with different ideas for their origins.)

 

[Xenonnonex]

I asked this: “Im curious why that’s not your suggested solution to dealing with the always evil orc scenario?”

You gave a comment but not actually an answer to this question.

A solution I gave you. Whether you feel that is working for your narrative is up to you.

 

[seebs]

The greatest evil tends to be done by people who characterise other people as monsters.

That's a very good point. I tend to avoid that language in general for exactly that reason, because it's hard to manage all the nuance needed to express the concept of people behaving monstrously.

That said, the greatest evil requires not just characterizing other people as monsters, but believing that monsters aren't people. And really, any kind of "those things aren't really people" will do it. Recognizing that the other people who are monsters are still people is very important.

Selectively denying that people are monsters only because they're like you, or part of your heritage, though, is a very important step towards being comfortable thinking that monsters aren't people. If you have to admit that "monsters" is a category which includes people you care about, you are going to be less comfortable with dismissing the humanity and rights of the "monsters".

 

[seebs]

And you wonder why you get accused of trivializing the issue and lack empathy?

You're arguing with someone who, in a recent thread, asked how it was bad for Jewish people for people to post anti-Semitic rants. I don't think you're going to get anywhere asking them to think about consequences; either they can't, or they like the consequences.

 

[FrogReaver]

A solution I gave you. Whether you feel that is working for your narrative is up to you.

From where I’m from that’s called ignoring the question. Maybe it’s different from where you are from?

 

[Oofta]

That's a very good point. I tend to avoid that language in general for exactly that reason, because it's hard to manage all the nuance needed to express the concept of people behaving monstrously.

That said, the greatest evil requires not just characterizing other people as monsters, but believing that monsters aren't people. And really, any kind of "those things aren't really people" will do it. Recognizing that the other people who are monsters are still people is very important.

Selectively denying that people are monsters only because they're like you, or part of your heritage, though, is a very important step towards being comfortable thinking that monsters aren't people. If you have to admit that "monsters" is a category which includes people you care about, you are going to be less comfortable with dismissing the humanity and rights of the "monsters".

Are vampires monsters? Ghouls? What about Mothra?

We don't have literal monsters in the real world, we do in the game.

 

[FrogReaver]

You're arguing with someone who, in a recent thread, asked how it was bad for Jewish people for people to post anti-Semitic rants. I don't think you're going to get anywhere asking them to think about consequences; either they can't, or they like the consequences.

you shouldn’t lie about me.

 

[TheSword]

no idea. I’m told such settings exist and so I take that at face value unless someone wants to dispute that claim. Are you disputing this?

What’s most funny about this conversation to me is I home brew my settings and sentient races are typically NOT monolithically evil in my campaigns. But if someone says they like such things, I’m not going to yuck in their yum.

I can’t prove a negative. You seemed very invested in published settings being able to have monolithically evil orcs. I was asking are there any WOC settings that have monolithically evil orcs. I’m surprised you have even arguing so strongly if you don’t know any?

 

[Maxperson]

Read the part from Keith Baker. Or is the assumption they are still simply humans. Cos if you still think that. There is no hope at all. Convincing you otherwise is utterly futile. Bow out I will.

Luck to you all.

Got

There was nothing in that post that led me to think Eberron orcs aren't just variant humans. The only real difference was "They feel emotions more strongly." That's not much. The rest was just cultural stuff that could apply to any human society.

 

[FrogReaver]

I can’t prove a negative. You seemed very invested in published settings being able to have monolithically evil orcs. I was asking are there any WOC settings that have monolithically evil orcs. I’m surprised you have even arguing so strongly if you don’t know any?

I’m told they exist but I can’t name them. Do you think monolothocally evil orcs exist in any setting wotc setting?

Also you can prove a negative, by contradiction or exhaustive means, etc. but to be able to prove something you first need to take a stance on it.

taking a stance is something I notice you have a hard time doing in your posts.