D&D 5E NPC party competing with PCs

[Coroc]

I want to know if you folks ever ran a competition NPC party for the same goal(s) as the PCs have.
E.g. it I s a race for clues with optionally different paths to go or only the quicker party gets the goal.


Especially if you did that in 5e, how did you build that competition party?
Did you take NPC stats and skills or did u make something up out of the Monster manual?

If you played in such a campaign:
was it fun?
How did your PCs keep up themselves versus your NPC party?
Was there frustration if the NPCs resolved something first?

 

[commandercrud]

I use rival NPC parties all the time. Typically, I'll offer two tasks to the players. PCs choose one, NPCs take the other. Then maybe roll to determine if they succeeded or if the task is still open to the PCs. Sometimes when the PCs get sidetracked, I'll have the NPCs complete their task. Once they even stole the credit and reward from the PCs when they didn't get back to town for a long time. Very rarely any direct fighting, so almost never bother to stat them out. Players seem to like it, makes the world feel more real.

 

[Fenris-77]

What you can use an NPC party for is pretty open ended. What you should use them for is to facilitate a certain set of fictional outcomes. In other words, have a very specific plan for why you have that party in the narrative and focus on that. If it's competing in a race to the mcguffin then their primary task is to serve as a clock, so if the PCs don't get to X by time Y then Z happens. When the other party is in the lead, they also serve as the source of a secondary set of clue, which is cool. WHy follow the clues when you can just track the other party. Used deftly, this can actually be used in a vaguely deus ex machina kind of way to jumpstart a stalled group of PCs. The nice thing about the pther party is that they have motivations and goals, and they are an easy tool to use to drive narrative.

It doesn't have to be that simple of course. One of the things I like about the competing party trope is that it gives you a chance to add some frenemies to the mix, and to add some social interaction to the game even in the depths of a dungeon or deep wilderness. That can lead to more interesting and nuanced decision making. For example, the PCs have been sparring back and forth with Party X for many sessions in their twin hunts for the Duke's Golden Underpants. Insults have been exchanged and sarcastic little waves given as someone disappears with the loot. Close to the final goal, the PCs find Party X in bloody melee with a Giant Monster. They're in a bad way, with one or more unconscious NPCs and all battered and bloody - they're losing. What do the PCs do? Do you help, do you wait it out, what kind of concessions might you be able to wring from them if you team up? Lots of cool nuance and narrative potential there. Also, done right, the team-up scene allows you to add in a beast that would normally be way to big for just the party by itself, which is also cool.

 

[Oofta]

I've done this before as well. Sometimes I stat them out, sometimes they come into conflict other times they don't. I also like to treat them like any other NPC - the PCs can influence their behavior which can sometimes lead to results I didn't expect.

Long story short, I've had the PCs have such an influence on an NPC from a rival party that was supposed to turn into a mid-to-end game BBEG turn into an ally. It was a twist I never expected, but one of the things that made it an interactive, living story not just my campaign.

 

[delphonso]

I made a rival NPC party in a campaign before. In their first interaction, the rivals were trying to accomplish the same goal (hunt a monster for prestige) which became a wild attempt to kill steal each other and was a lot of fun. I would be hesitant with more murderhobo players, though who might just take the competition out.

Later, those rivals less directly competed for things like found clues which then weren't available to the PCs.

The best part was when the players took on the rival characters for a one-shot. Such a deathwish...

 

[Coroc]

@Fenris-77 and @Oofta and @delphonso thank you for your replies, but I am still curious, did you use PC like stats or Mob like stats for the rival party?

 

[iserith]

Not only do I use rival NPCs, I use the same rival NPCs in every campaign as a running joke. In particular, I use the iconic characters from D&D 3e - Tordek, Mialee, Jozan, Lidda, and so on. They call themselves "The Iconics" and they are the worst sorts of jerks, the kind of people the players love to hate and foil. I use NPC statistics for them.

 

[Coroc]

Not only do I use rival NPCs, I use the same rival NPCs in every campaign as a running joke. In particular, I use the iconic characters from D&D 3e - Tordek, Mialee, Jozan, Lidda, and so on. They call themselves "The Iconics" and they are the worst sorts of jerks, the kind of people the players love to hate and foil. I use NPC statistics for them.

Funny, w/o knowing of the 3e iconic I named my returning nemesis Succubus in my Greyhawk campaign "Lida"

 

[Oofta]

@Fenris-77 and @Oofta and @delphonso thank you for your replies, but I am still curious, did you use PC like stats or Mob like stats for the rival party?

Yes, I wrote them up as character classes when I wrote them up at all. The one thing you need to be careful of is resource management, if the NPCs can go nova every time they encounter the group they can be quite a bit more powerful. So if there's direct conflict (which I try to avoid) you need to be a bit careful. Generally I try to allowed escape routes for either side or have only a subset of the NPC opponents show up along with less-powerful allies.

 

[Fenris-77]

@Fenris-77 and @Oofta and @delphonso thank you for your replies, but I am still curious, did you use PC like stats or Mob like stats for the rival party?

I stat out NPCs to the extent they need to be statted out. For recurring NPCs with class levels that means a little more depth, but I'm still not writing them up like full characters. Stats and a couple of key skills, plus a usual spell list is often enough. I can improv anything else that comes up. I'll usually spend the most time on the leader, something PC parties often don't have but I find very useful in a NPC party, then a little less time on a couple of the more important members, and then just sketch the rest. It depends on how much spotlight time I think the NPCs will get.