D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Bedrockgames]

It wouldn't be that large of an effort for the writers to add a 'suggested reading' list at the end of a book. It was included in 5e PHB.

A lot of RPG books do, and it is fine. My point was, I think it is a mistake to look to RPGs books for knowledge about the real world. These are always going to be games first, usually written by non-experts, who are not typically interested in producing something that is 100% authentic to a given culture, historical period, etc. Books that are accurate and authentic can be made. But I don't think the barrier to entry should be that people must have expertise in a given area, must strive for accuracy, and must always put history ahead of fun. I say this as someone who was a history major. I love history. And for a long time, I was the kind of person who was a nightmare to watch movies with if they were set in the past, because I couldn't enjoy people just having fun with history, or deviating from it. It took me a long time to understand that sometimes, people want to have the freedom to play with this stuff, that it doesn't always have to be accurate or teach people something.

 

[Sadras]

Ok, there is a small family rest in my hometown. Owners are Greek, like immigrant Greek. They serve traditional American fair, as well a some Greek specialty like gyros and saganaki. However, they also have quesadillas, spaghetti and stir fry, and I'm pretty sure they don't have and culinary training in Mexican, Italian or Chinese cuisine. Should they be able to sell these dishes that are not authentic to the public?

A one-stop cultural cuisine!

 

[Sadras]

It took me a long time to understand that sometimes, people want to have the freedom to play with this stuff, that it doesn't always have to be accurate or teach people something.

Exactly, sometimes it just pure entertainment and other times its Season 8 Game of Thrones.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

A one-stop cultural cuisine!

Korean/Mexican fusion is amazing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Consider humor.

A person can use a joke to deepen friendship and intimacy, and welcome. A person can use the same joke to bully and harm, and alienate.

The person who is at the expense of the joke, can sense the intent of the joke.

To "play" with someone elses identity NEVER disconnects from that reallife human.

If a gonzo gamer forgets the reallife persons, harm happens.

But you can also misread someone's intentions. That is why I usually err on the side of being charitable when someone says or does something that irks me or seems to insult me. I can think of countless times someone said or did something, that I thought was directed at me in a negative way, when it had nothing to do with me.

I think by its nature, RPGs are an activity where you can step into the shoes of other people. But it is imaginative, and imagination isn't always going to be accurate, or fully understand the scope of something. There will be times when someone does something egregious, like portrays a character in a truly insulting and demeaning way. That can certainly happen, but we shouldn't judge all attempts at role-play by the worst outliers. And I think it is a mistake to take too fine a lens to it, because all you are going to do in the end is discourage people from even trying if they can never get it right without relying on consultants or a mediator of some kind to imagine what it is like to be someone else, or to live in another culture. There is definitely value in learning about things from people who know and have experience with them. But I feel like we are turning something that should be a bridge into a wall by mandating it, and by making it seem like these sorts of cultural barriers are utterly insurmountable and dangerous to cross.

 

[Aldarc]

Korean/Mexican fusion is amazing.

Czech-Mex is pretty good too.

 

[Mallus]

Korean/Mexican fusion is amazing.

You should try my Authentic East Coast Pot-Sticker Chili, made with Trader Joe’s gyoza, copious amounts of Chinese fried chilies in oil, white beans, and ground chicken!

 

[Haldrik]

Ok, there is a small family rest in my hometown. Owners are Greek, like immigrant Greek. They serve traditional American fair, as well a some Greek specialty like gyros and saganaki. However, they also have quesadillas, spaghetti and stir fry, and I'm pretty sure they don't have and culinary training in Mexican, Italian or Chinese cuisine. Should they be able to sell these dishes that are not authentic to the public?

The issue is more like ...

Tomorrow, this restaurant with all of its Non-Mexican foods, starts calling itself a "Mexican restaurant" pretending to serve Mexican food.

Even the ingredients of the recipes that resemble actual Mexico, are seriously wrong.

In the mean time, it takes all the leftover food that should be thrown out, and instead mixes it all together, tries to sell it, and calls it "Tacos".



Borrowing tropes is ok.
• Dont borrow what one doesnt understand.
• Dont misrepresent reallife cultural terms.
• Certainly dont demonize reallife cultural terms to objectional aspects of the game (like Evil).

 

[Haldrik]

Culture does need to be sensitively treated and respected. I agree with you that diverse representation is needed.

The problem, though, is how can we ensure culture is sensitivity and respectfully treated and we see diverse representation when there is nothing that helps guide someone?

But from what I can see, I’m not assured that removal achieves a more sensitive and respectful approach to different cultures.

First, it presumes individuals have the time and inclination to conduct a cultural sensitivity analysis of the fantasyworld they are creating.

Secondly, if I don’t help someone to learn by giving them the tools, doesn’t that mean I’m complicit in allowing racism? By accepting that I am willing to accept someone playing their home game with racist tropes, then I am also accepting that that same person can perpetuate the type of explicit and casual racism others have mentioned in this thread. Reading guides are one step, but may act as a deterrent for the reason above - time and inclination.

Finally, having WotC remove OA helps them avoid responsibility for correcting their errors. Removal is an easy answer to a complex problem and one that WotC will happily take given they have shown little interest in providing updates or new sourcebooks for the worlds it’s players have asked for - Darksun, Spelljammer, Greyhawk.

WotC really should be made to reissue an updated book. This would do more to correct misappropriation than removing the book will ever do. And while they’re at it, WotC could expand “Asia” to include the diversity of all that continent’s regions, not just one seen limited to Sho’gun Japan or Imperial Han China.

It all boils down to ...

Be intimate with the identity and know what you are talking about,

before you try appropriate someone elses identity.



The culture itself is the "guidance". Understand the culture.

 

[WayneLigon]

Ever got the idea that those writers might not have had a problem with Oriental Adventures?

Freelancers bite a lot of bullets in order to put food on the table.