Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms

[Raduin711]

You can't steal words

I said this.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I said this.

Well, now you're being oppressed.

 

[Hussar]

Well, much of the english language is taking terms from other languages. So do we stop using "sugar" because it has Arabic roots?

At this point, we either need to make up thousands of new words to replace English words with, or acknowledge were speaking English and if a definition of a word fits what you're describing, you go with it. Might as well replace the numeric system while we're at it so we don't culturally appropriate Arabic culture.

Cultural appropriation is a very real thing. But because a word had it's origins from another culture, doesn't mean the current definition is cultural appropriation itself.

That's not the issue though.

The issue is that the words are being appropriated and then applied to pretty negative elements. @Doug McCrae in this post (adding link so people can see for themselves) Mana, Shamans, and the Cultural Misappropriation behind Fantasy Terms illustrates nicely that the only Monsters with Shaman's are primitives, savage and evil. I mean, why shouldn't elves have shaman? Wouldn't a shamanistic tradition fit best with elves? But, elves have clerics. And they certainly aren't depicted as primitive. So, obviously they can't have shamans because shamans only belong to evil, savage, primitives.

See how it becomes a problem?

To me, that sort of action is inherently racist. It suggests that the people whom the word/item/concept in question are too child-like or inferior to fight their own struggles, or even to realize they have been offended.

Or, instead, people are capable of recognizing bigotry and racism, even if it's not specifically directed at them and have realized that the bigots and racists of the world depend on the silence of the majority in order to spread their brand of hatred. That regardless of who you are, what color you are, where you come from, when you see racism and bigotry, you call it out and bring it into the light where it squirms and dies.

OTOH, aren't you judging people by the color of their skin by claiming that they aren't allowed to call out bigotry that isn't directed at them? You don't know. Maybe their mother or father is a BIPOC, but, you can't tell by looking at them. Or their wives/husbands, children, friends, neighbours, are all people who ARE affected by racism and they're rather tired of being told that they have to sit off to the side and aren't allowed to have an opinion just because of the color of their skin.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I said this.

Touche

 

[Bedrockgames]

You can misrepresent a culture with misunderstood and misapplied cultural loanwords.

But this isn't even really that. This is just a case of the word being used, with pretty much all of the cultural context removed (so even if you think cultural appropriation is something to be concerned about, this isn't taking any of the culture, it is just taking a word that helps encapsulate a concept about magic), then accidentally takes off and gets confused with manna. I think you can argue this has become a very useful term on its own, and people weren't even trying to take something from another culture (or even aware at all that was what was happening). The fact that you need a whole video like this to make an argument for that etymology, because no one associates the term with the culture in question really.

Words and language evolve and people borrow terms all the time. I don't think it makes a lot of sense, especially if you are using long established language like mana and shamans, which help people communicate concepts in fantasy settings, to go after that as some kind of transgression against another person's culture. It has become part of English. Just feels like you are needlessly taking useful words from people. You go around the world and you see loan words all the time. It is fine to trace the origins of those loan words, but I think it is very strange to see the act of one language borrowing words from another, as harmful or bad. My wife is from another country, and her language uses a lot of English, and a lot of that English is used in a new way, sometimes a humorous way or even a negative way, when it didn't originally have a negative connotation. It would be pretty aggressive for me to start questioning her use of words from my language or vice versa.

 

[Olrox17]

I feel like we're delving deep into manufactured outrage territory here.
I mean, I disagreed with a lot of what was recently said about orcs, drow, and oriental adventures, but I could at least see the other side's position and a potential compromise that could be reached.

Offense by proxy doesn't interest me.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Or, instead, people are capable of recognizing bigotry and racism, even if it's not specifically directed at them and have realized that the bigots and racists of the world depend on the silence of the majority in order to spread their brand of hatred. That regardless of who you are, what color you are, where you come from, when you see racism and bigotry, you call it out and bring it into the light where it squirms and dies.

Not really, Firstly, use of common terms within a language isn't bigotry or racism. Secondly, accusing others of bigotry or racism on thin to no pretext is in fact bigotry itself. Thirdly, you don't change peoples' heart-felt opinions by 'bringing it into the light'. That's just silly.

Here's what is likely the reason for our disparity in viewpoints: you're probably white. I'm definitely not.

So from the PoV of a non-white, I would much rather deal with people who use 'mana' or 'shaman' than self-appointed enforcers of racial purity.

It's going to sound like I've put you on ignore, because I am.

 

[Jd Smith1]

I feel like we're delving deep into manufactured outrage territory here.
I mean, I disagreed with a lot of what was recently said about orcs, drow, and oriental adventures, but I could at least see the other side's position and a potential compromise that could be reached.

Offense by proxy doesn't interest me.

Very well said.

 

[Aldarc]

But this isn't even really that.

You seem to think that I am arguing that cultural loanwords are theft and ignoring everything else, and now you are doubling down on that point. It would be nice if you could engage more with strawmen of your own manufacture. It's frustrating talking with you, Bedrock, because I sometimes feel that you talk past me rather than engage what I write.

 

[Bedrockgames]

You seem to think that I am arguing that cultural loanwords are theft and ignoring everything else, and now you are doubling down on that point. It would be nice if you could engage more with strawmen of your own manufacture. It's frustrating talking with you, Bedrock, because I sometimes feel that you talk past me rather than engage what I write.

I am just trying to honestly respond to what you are saying. Maybe I am misreading you. But my post wasn't just about loan words in general, I tried to address what you seem to be talking about.