D&D 5E Classes that Suck

[Seramus]

Warlocks only really need less invocation taxes (especially Pact of Blade), and more invocation support for other cantrips.

Sorcerers need an overhaul of their metamagic. It's just not unique enough.

 

[Charlaquin]

I give them opportunity for short rests, but those aren't the only things lacking with those classes. Sure, Warlocks get spell slots back on a short rest, but with 2 slots, they're still limited to EB spamming most of the time.

Should work out to about one leveled spell per encounter increasing to 1.5 spells per encounter at 11th level and 2 spells per encounter at 13th level, all at the highest level you can cast. They also gain Mystic Arcana at the same levels other casters get level 6+ spells. In comparison, a wizard can cast one spell of their highest level every other encounter, roughly speaking. Granted, they can cast lower-level spells as well, but that’s the trade-off. Warlocks can cast at their full power more often, but rely on cantrips otherwise. Other casters get more spells total, but fewer of their most powerful spells. It’s very nicely balanced, if you stick to the 6-8 encounter adventuring day with 2-3 short rests guideline.

 

[pnewman]

At low levels the Sorcerer is better than the Wizard because a Draconic Ancestor Sorcerer gets +3 to AC all the time, to match that the Wizard has to cast Mage Armor every 8 hours.

It's all about survival. When you're up against low level monsters with about a +4 to hit then (assuming Dex 14) an AC 12 Wizard will get hit 65% of the time while an AC 15 Sorcerer will get hit only 50% of the time. 0.65/0.5 = 1.3 so the Wizard will get hit 30% more often, and they just don't have the hit points to handle it.

If a L1 Wizard casts Mage Armor every morning to get the AC 15 the Sorcerer always has they're burning a L1 slot, recovering it with Arcane Recovery during a short rest at noon, casting it again at 4 pm, thus having only one level one slot to use on anything else all day, and still have a poor AC when the monsters attack at 3 am.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Warlocks only really need less invocation taxes (especially Pact of Blade), and more invocation support for other cantrips.

Sorcerers need an overhaul of their metamagic. It's just not unique enough.

I agree. I'm currently playing a Hexblade Warlock, and it's annoying that I have to give up almost all my Eldritch Invocations just in order to keep up with other melee characters.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

At low levels the Sorcerer is better than the Wizard because a Draconic Ancestor Sorcerer gets +3 to AC all the time, to match that the Wizard has to cast Mage Armor every 8 hours.

It's all about survival. When you're up against low level monsters with about a +4 to hit then (assuming Dex 14) an AC 12 Wizard will get hit 65% of the time while an AC 15 Sorcerer will get hit only 50% of the time. 0.65/0.5 = 1.3 so the Wizard will get hit 30% more often, and they just don't have the hit points to handle it.

If a L1 Wizard casts Mage Armor every morning to get the AC 15 the Sorcerer always has they're burning a L1 slot, recovering it with Arcane Recovery during a short rest at noon, casting it again at 4 pm, thus having only one level one slot to use on anything else all day, and still have a poor AC when the monsters attack at 3 am.

But that's just one subclass, not the whole base class. Sure, Draconic Sorcerers are good, but can you say the same about the Wild Magic sorcerers?

 

[pnewman]

But that's just one subclass, not the whole base class. Sure, Draconic Sorcerers are good, but can you say the same about the Wild Magic sorcerers?

No, and that is why 90% of the Sorcerers I saw in my 5 years of running D&D every week were Draconic Sorcerers. They're why Sorcerers don't suck. +3 AC is huge with bounded accuracy.

 

[Asisreo]

No, and that is why 90% of the Sorcerers I saw in my 5 years of running D&D every week were Draconic Sorcerers. They're why Sorcerers don't suck. +3 AC is huge with bounded accuracy.

I should mention that the wild magic sorcerer seems to be the only way anyone gets advantage on any saving throw in the game outside of high-level spells such as foresight. Of course, it's DM-dependent if you get to use it more than once per LR, but that's how it goes with Wild Magic.

 

[Maxperson]

Not one class deserves the "suck" label. All of them are fun to play and do well in 5e. Some of them are mechanically better at damage, but A) that still doesn't make the ones that do less "suck", and B) the game is far more than damage.

 

[dave2008]

I also have been thinking more about this recently, because the Class Feature Variants UA will probably be put in a book soon. If it's in a book without addressing the problems with the classes that should be fixed, that's not good.

I am confused by this statement. The point of the class variant features is twofold:

1. Provide more options
2. Improve class/subclass that are perceived to be subpar

Basically, the variant class features are the fix. The class will not be "fixed" before these options are available.

 

[Weiley31]

I agree. I'm currently playing a Hexblade Warlock, and it's annoying that I have to give up almost all my Eldritch Invocations just in order to keep up with other melee characters.

I actually make the argument/House Rule that at certain level thresholds, the Pact Weapon automatically upgrades to +1/+2/+3 to avoid said issue.