D&D 3E/3.5 Twenty Years On. Modern 3E?

[ccs]

I think in most people's campaigns they have always been more fluff than actual rule. Otherwise a spellcaster would constantly need to maintain a shopping list. Shopping for spell components also bogs down the game, plus it allows the DM to arbitrarily make some spell components unavailable, which would be unfair to the player. Plus no DM is going to check if a player actually has the required components for a spell. What it is, is unnecessary busy work. It has always been a bad rule, in EVERY edition of D&D.

And here boys & girls we see a prime example of how the casters, particularly the Wizard achieves their supposed superiority.
They convince the DM that tracking a vital supply is "unnecessary busy work".
Never mind that some spell components are rare & valuable things for a reason.

Yet they'll track their GP & XP in order to buy/craft as much *&^% as possible.... And they constantly have a shopping list anyways.

This DM tracks your spell components with a pencil. But its 2020 & I'm sure I could find an app for it.

 

[R_J_K75]

I would still keep a lot of 3Eisms. Prestige classes for example.

Some things were also in AD&D.

I'm paraphrasing but didnt WotC say during D&D Next that the next edition (5E) would contain most things from previous editions. It was supposed to be a modular system that you could tailor to suit your tables game? I don't think they succeeded in either.

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm paraphrasing but didnt WotC say during D&D Next that the next edition (5E) would contain most things from previous editions. It was supposed to be a modular system that you could tailor to suit your tables game? I don't think they succeeded in either.

People took them to literally.

The archetypes are based off previous editions.

 

[wingsandsword]

I'm paraphrasing but didnt WotC say during D&D Next that the next edition (5E) would contain most things from previous editions. It was supposed to be a modular system that you could tailor to suit your tables game? I don't think they succeeded in either.

They definitely didn't.

5 years later and there's still no psionics system, no system for Epic Levels, and a LOT of character concepts that you could make with earlier editions do NOT work in 5e.

5e works well for doing a basic, plain-vanilla 1-20 campaign. . .but if players want more unusual character concepts, psionics, taking the game to epic levels, playing in settings outside the baseline, the game doesn't really support that well.

When I've complained on here about these shortcomings, I've been told they aren't shortcomings at all, and that WotC instead doesn't want to publish D&D materials for 5e unless they'll be used by a majority of the player base, so anything that won't have 51%+ of gaming tables adopting it won't get written. . .which ultimately just creates a sort of enforced orthodoxy of D&D.

 

[R_J_K75]

People took them to literally.

The archetypes are based off previous editions.

Youre most likely right and its been so long I dont remember much than it was earlier in the NEXT playtest and after awhile I stopped paying attention and just waited until it came out.

 

[Zardnaar]

Youre most likely right and its been so long I dont remember much than it was earlier in the NEXT playtest and after awhile I stopped paying attention and just waited until it came out.

This is what they meant by modular. Inspired by probably more accurate.

Basic. We'll get the basic set.

Hunter ranger yeah old D&D, beastmadter 3E.

Champion. Simple fighter, Battlemaster 4E inspired.

Land Druid AD&D (forest)1E, land druid (any) 2E, moon druid 3E.

Etc.

Throw in optional rules.
Nuance online though people heard what they wanted to hear.

 

[R_J_K75]

They definitely didn't.

5 years later and there's still no psionics system, no system for Epic Levels, and a LOT of character concepts that you could make with earlier editions do NOT work in 5e.

5e works well for doing a basic, plain-vanilla 1-20 campaign. . .but if players want more unusual character concepts, psionics, taking the game to epic levels, playing in settings outside the baseline, the game doesn't really support that well.

When I've complained on here about these shortcomings, I've been told they aren't shortcomings at all, and that WotC instead doesn't want to publish D&D materials for 5e unless they'll be used by a majority of the player base, so anything that won't have 51%+ of gaming tables adopting it won't get written. . .which ultimately just creates a sort of enforced orthodoxy of D&D.

I suppose early in the playtest I was envisioning smaller strictly mechanical supplements outside of the core, such as, heres a Dark Sun conversion, heres a book on how to convert 2E kits, etc. As Zardnaar perhaps I took it too literally.

 

[wingsandsword]

I will say that I could get behind a game that is a blend of 5e and 3.x. I do appreciate some elements of 5e, certainly it generally has better designed classes, and I do like how it made combat faster.

I prefer the triad of Fortitude/Reflex/Will saves, I prefer a lot of 3e-isms though. I prefer 3e's magic item creation.

I think there's overall a lot of parts and pieces between 3.x (and other OGL works) and 5e to make the perfect edition of D&D and improve on 3.5e with some elements of 5e.

 

[wingsandsword]

I suppose early in the playtest I was envisioning smaller strictly mechanical supplements outside of the core, such as, heres a Dark Sun conversion, heres a book on how to convert 2E kits, etc. As Zardnaar perhaps I took it too literally.

I don't think you took it too literally, I think you took it as intended, then WotC backpedaled on it.

While I didn't follow the 5e development process super-closely, the talk about returning to elements of previous editions, of walking away from 4e's renunciation of D&D's heritage, of trying to make the game more compatible with older materials and D&D's legacy was something I remember too, and assumed (like you did) that would mean that most campaign settings (especially popular ones like Dark Sun) and most popular subsystems like psionics and epic levels would have a place in the game.

 

[R_J_K75]

...and assumed (like you did) that would mean that most campaign settings (especially popular ones like Dark Sun) and most popular subsystems like psionics and epic levels would have a place in the game.

I'm just surprised that with the DMs Guild and all the legacy material available there that WotC hasnt released smaller supplements. I dont think that every time they re-do a campaign setting or an old supplement it necessarily needs a $50 hardcover.