D&D 5E Break my concentration redesign!

[GlassJaw]

After concentration popped up again in a recent thread, I dug out my own notes and revisited the topic. Here's my quick take on the concentration mechanic:

1. The concentration mechanic has been a great addition to 5E.
2. Some spells are hurt more than others by requiring concentration and therefore, rarely - if ever - get used.

I'd really like to see #2 addressed. I'm also willing to allow casters to concentrate on two spells at a time, depending on the spell combination. This won't significantly affect balance. If anything, it will make for more interesting gameplay if a wider range of spells are used.

Here's my basic criteria for evaluating concentration spells:

• Does it require an attack roll (Ray of Enfeeblement, Searing Smite, Witch Bolt)?
• Does it require an action every round to continue to use (Witch Bolt)?
• Does it allow a save every round (Ray of Enfeeblement)?
• Does it require the caster to be in melee (Vampiric Touch, smite spells)?
• Is it rarely used?

However, you can't simply remove concentration from a group of spells to solve the problem. It's a start but it has far-reaching consequences if concentration is removed from too many spells, mainly buff-stacking, which I would argue was the primary design goal of the developers when implementing the concentration mechanic. However, after 6 years of "playtesting", it's clear some spells are hurt significantly by it.

My redesign is twofold:

1. Remove concentration from a small group of spells, and
2. Put concentration spells into 2 categories. A caster can maintain concentration on two spells at a time, one from each category.

Concentration Categories
Ally (A): The spell affects yourself or one or more allies
Enemy/Environment (E): The spell affects the environment or one or more enemies

If you take damage while you are concentrating on two spells, the DC equals 15 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you fail, you lose both spells.

Remove Concentration

Spell Level Dancing Lights Cantrip True Strike Cantrip Hail of Thorns 1st Searing Smite 1st Thunderous Smite 1st Witch Bolt 1st Wrathful Smite 1st Barkskin 2nd Branding Smite 2nd Ray of Enfeeblement 2nd Blinding Smite 3rd Call Lightning 3rd Elemental Weapon 3rd Lightning Arrow 3rd Staggering Smite 4th Banishing Smite 5th

 

[GlassJaw]

Sorry for the long post. I wish there was a way to make smaller tables. Oh well.

Anyway, here's the list. A few spells have question marks (?) as I'm still debating but you get the idea. So your job is to find 2-spell combos that could be a problem or broken. Thanks!

Spell Level Type Friends Cantrip A Guidance Cantrip A Resistance Cantrip A Bane 1st E Bless 1st A Compelled Duel 1st E Detect Evil and Good 1st A Detect Magic 1st A Detect Poison and Disease 1st A Divine Favor 1st A Entangle 1st E Expeditious Retreat 1st A Faerie Fire 1st E Fog Cloud 1st E Heroism 1st A Hex 1st E Hunter's Mark 1st A Protection from Evil and Good 1st A Shield of Faith 1st A Silent Image 1st E Tasha's Hideous Laughter 1st E Alter Self 2nd A Beast Sense 2nd A Blur 2nd A Calm Emotions 2nd E Cloud of Daggers 2nd E Crown of Madness 2nd E Darkness 2nd E Detect Thoughts 2nd A Enhance Ability 2nd A Enlarge/Reduce 2nd A/E Flame Blade 2nd E (?) Flaming Sphere 2nd E Gust of Wind 2nd E Heat Metal 2nd E Hold Person 2nd E Invisibility 2nd A Levitate 2nd A/E Locate Object 2nd A Magic Weapon 2nd ? Moonbeam 2nd E Pass without Trace 2nd A Phantasmal Force 2nd E Silence 2nd E Spider Climb 2nd A Spike Growth 2nd E Suggestion 2nd E Web 2nd E Aura of Vitality 3rd A Beacon of Hope 3rd A Bestow Curse 3rd E Clairvoyance 3rd A Conjure Animals 3rd E Crusader's Mantle 3rd A Elemental Weapon 3rd ? Fear 3rd E Fly 3rd A Gaseous Form 3rd A Haste 3rd A Hunger of Hadar 3rd E Hypnotic Pattern 3rd E Major Image 3rd E Protection from Energy 3rd ? Sleet Storm 3rd E Slow 3rd E Spirit Guardians 3rd A Stinking Cloud 3rd E Vampiric Touch 3rd ? Wind Wall 3rd E Arcane Eye 4th A Aura of Life 4th A Aura of Purity 4th A Banishment 4th E Compulsion 4th E Confusion 4th E Conjure Minor Elementals 4th E Conjure Woodland Beings 4th E Control Water 4th E Dominate Beast 4th E Evard's Black Tentacles 4th E Giant Insect 4th E Grasping Vine 4th E Greater Invisibility 4th A Locate Creature 4th A Otiluke's Resilient Sphere 4th E Phantasmal Killer 4th E Polymorph 4th A Stoneskin 4th A Wall of Fire 4th E Animate Objects 5th E Antilife Shell 5th A Bigby's Hand 5th E Circle of Power 5th A Cloudkill 5th E Conjure Elemental 5th E Dispel Evil and Good 5th A Dominate Person 5th E Hold Monster 5th E Insect Plague 5th E Mislead 5th A Modify Memory 5th E Scrying 5th A Swift Quiver 5th A Telekinesis 5th E Tree Stride 5th A Wall of Force 5th E Wall of Stone 5th E Arcane Gate 6th E Blade Barrier 6th E Conjure Fey 6th E Eyebite 6th E Find the Path 6th A Flesh to Stone 6th A Globe of Invulnerability 6th A Move Earth 6th E Otto's Irresistible Dance 6th E Sunbeam 6th E Wall of Ice 6th E Wall of Thorns 6th E Conjure Celestial 7th E Delayed Blast Fireball 7th E Mordenkainen's Sword 7th E Project Image 7th E Reverse Gravity 7th E Animal Shapes 8th A Antimagic Field 8th E Control Weather 8th E Dominate Monster 8th E Earthquake 8th E Holy Aura 8th A Incendiary Cloud 8th E Maze 8th E Tsunami 8th E Gate 9th E Shapechange 9th A Storm of Vengeance 9th E True Polymorph 9th A Weird 9th E

 

[Bacon Bits]

I think that the * Smite spells only have Concentration to prevent players from stacking them over and over and over and then hitting one target and unleashing 9 spells at once. The spells need to prevent that somehow.

Personally, I'd remove concentration from Stoneskin. It has an expensive material component (100 gp of diamond dust) and the only reason it "needs" concentration is because it lasts up to an hour. Make it last 10 minutes and you can remove concentration very easily.

I don't understand why Hunter's Mark and Hex are not the same category. Hunter's Mark is clearly an E.

I'm not sure that spells that require actions to utilize, like Detect X or Call Lightning or even Sunbeam, really require concentration.

 

[Laurefindel]

hum, sure. I'll try.

I hit for 15 damage. Roll DC 10 Constitution save.

Let me know if I broke your concentration...

 

[Nebulous]

you put a lot of work into this! The Book of Talents I'm using has a dual concentration mechanic. Disadvantage on the Con save. I'm also adding you can't use a bonus action or reaction if dual casting. We haven't tried it in play yet though.

 

[Krachek]

Modify every spell is a bulk task.
Why don’t try using upcast to add feature aiding concentration.
Upcasting a spell one level make concentation unbreakable for this spell for the duration.
Upcasting X levels allow to add the spell on Ongoing concentration.
the classic example is fly and greater invisibility, does the fly spell cast at level 5 worth it? Level 6?
of course these Upcasting don’t trigger usual Upcasting, but can be combined if sufficient high level slot is used.

 

[Shiroiken]

I agree that way too many spells require concentration. From your list, the only one of those that I disagree with is Call Lightning. Just because you have to take an action to use it doesn't mean it isn't worthy of concentration. Maybe if it's a spell that requires you to constantly use your action without automatically having the spell end (e.g. Witch Bolt).

I don't agree with the idea of allowing a concentration spell for both one that targets enemies and one that targets allies. Partially because there are occasionally reasons to cast them on either (e.g. Levitate), but also because it allows casters to no longer decide between offense and defense. Invisibility and Fly are going to be the worst abusers, as you can use them to protect yourself while still using a concentration spell to obliterate your enemies (especially if the concentration spell doesn't require an attack roll).

I think that the * Smite spells only have Concentration to prevent players from stacking them over and over and over and then hitting one target and unleashing 9 spells at once. The spells need to prevent that somehow.

The smite spells automatically go off with your next hit, so you can't store them for one devastating attack. In addition, the 1 minute duration prevents building them up in advance. If the party has the ability to set up almost a minute before an attack, this benefit is going to pale to other spells (IME that much time usually ensures victory before the end of the 2nd round, and often before the enemy has a chance to respond).

 

[Flamestrike]

Overly complicated.

Just allow concentration on two spells at once (maybe with a level of Exhaustion as the 'cost' - which is fluffy and appropriate).

Saves to maintain concentration are made with disadvantage when so doing.

 

[GlassJaw]

Thanks for the feedback!

I think that the * Smite spells only have Concentration to prevent players from stacking them over and over and over and then hitting one target and unleashing 9 spells at once. The spells need to prevent that somehow.

That's fair, but if someone wants to invest that many actions and spell slots, I'd almost be inclined to let them. That's certainly not in the spirit of those spells though. Easy enough to remedy: add a line to each of the smite spells that says "You can only have one smite spell active at a time."

Personally, I'd remove concentration from Stoneskin. It has an expensive material component (100 gp of diamond dust) and the only reason it "needs" concentration is because it lasts up to an hour. Make it last 10 minutes and you can remove concentration very easily.

I'm inclined to agree. My goal on the first pass was to only change concentration and not alter the spells themselves (I have some spells changes as well).

I don't understand why Hunter's Mark and Hex are not the same category. Hunter's Mark is clearly an E.

Agreed.

I'm not sure that spells that require actions to utilize, like Detect X or Call Lightning or even Sunbeam, really require concentration.

While I was working on this, I wanted to start a separate thread called "Why in Hades are the detect spells concentration?!"

I removed concentration from Call Lightning. Sunbeam is interesting. It's a much better spell but meets the criteria. Probably a good playtest candidate.

 

[GlassJaw]

The Book of Talents I'm using has a dual concentration mechanic. Disadvantage on the Con save. I'm also adding you can't use a bonus action or reaction if dual casting. We haven't tried it in play yet though.

Why don’t try using upcast to add feature aiding concentration.
Upcasting a spell one level make concentation unbreakable for this spell for the duration.

Just allow concentration on two spells at once (maybe with a level of Exhaustion as the 'cost' - which is fluffy and appropriate).
Saves to maintain concentration are made with disadvantage when so doing.

I am specifically avoiding opening up concentration on multiple spells to any combination. That is antithesis to my goal and what I believe was the goal of the original developers. Simply put, I believe it is the wrong design decision.

No matter how much playtesting you do, it opens the door to buff stacking. Concentration needs to be carefully controlled.

To be frank, adding a second concentration category is one of the simplest "fixes" I've seen to concentration that also preserves the original design intent of concentration. Opening up concentration to more than one spell by its very nature adds "complication" to the game. But without checks and balances, the complication will be compounded during play when balance issues invaribly rear their ugly head.