ICv2's Top 5 RPGs for Spring 2020 - D&D 3PPs In The Chart!

ICv2's latest set of figures are in (I compile them all here) and, while there's little surprise about D&D followed by Pathfinder coming in the top two places, and Starfinder also featuring, there's a new entry -- "5E-Compatible". These are for Spring 2020.

The 5E-Compatible category, according to ICv2's online magazine, shows that collectively third-party D&D products are doing well, although none individually make the top five chart. Goodman Games was called out in particular, as were Kobold Press and Nord Games. RPGs as a whole, however, took a (small) dip for the first time in years, likely due to COVID.

One retailer commented on WotC's D&D releases, noting that while sales of recent books have been 'OK', it's been a while since a really big hit like the Volo and Xanathar Guides.

1	Dungeons & Dragons	Wizards of the Coast
2	Pathfinder	Paizo
3	5E-Compatible	Various
4	Starfinder	Paizo
5	Cyberpunk	R. Talsorian

 

[Mistwell]

Interesting, I believe this is a change from how it has worked traditionally, where the core rules were the money makers and the other stuff drove the sales of the rules. At least it was one of the cornerstones of the strategy for the launch of 3e.

Any idea on how and why this has changed?

Cheers

/Magnus

I mean, given Paizo is literally giving away almost everything they've published for PF2 in PDF format along wit the hardcopy core book in the humble bundle, it's hard to imagine that is currently the case for PF2. And it doesn't seem to be the case with 5e either, as their core books continue to be the best sellers 6 years in.

 

[macd21]

Interesting, I believe this is a change from how it has worked traditionally, where the core rules were the money makers and the other stuff drove the sales of the rules. At least it was one of the cornerstones of the strategy for the launch of 3e.

Any idea on how and why this has changed?

Cheers

/Magnus

I don’t think it has changed. The biggest seller for most RPGs is the core book, most have only a few follow-up supplements. PF may be an exception, as I think they made more money from their APs than most games made from adventures.

 

[macd21]

Thats fair but it also a not a steep learning curve to go from a d20 game to another d20 game. PF2 is pretty easy to learn the basics but it does have some serious crunch to it as well.

Sure, but so what? ‘Easy to learn’ is still a steeper learning curve than ‘stick with what you know,’ which also has the benefit of being cheaper, and doesn’t come with a risk of turning out to be something you hate. Plus you have all those supplements for the old edition...

A lot of people ‘aren’t on the 2E train’ because the 1E train is comfortable, takes them where they want to go and (very important) they’ve already paid for the tickets.

 

[Tyler Pickering]

Sure, but so what? ‘Easy to learn’ is still a steeper learning curve than ‘stick with what you know,’ which also has the benefit of being cheaper, and doesn’t come with a risk of turning out to be something you hate. Plus you have all those supplements for the old edition...

A lot of people ‘aren’t on the 2E train’ because the 1E train is comfortable, takes them where they want to go and (very important) they’ve already paid for the tickets.

I did play 1E for years then started with Starfinder and have no moved on 2E. My only opinion on the matter is that people should try before they outright dismiss it.

 

[macd21]

I did play 1E for years then started with Starfinder and have no moved on 2E. My only opinion on the matter is that people should try before they outright dismiss it.

Or they could keep playing the game they love. Like Mistwell said, there’s plenty of games out there, nobody has time to play them all, why should PF2 be special?

I don’t like PF1. I think it’s a terrible game, one of the few that I will neither play nor run. But plenty of people clearly love it. The fact that they don’t want to move on doesn’t mean they ‘are not having an open mind,’ it just means they’re happy with the game they already have on their shelves, and probably have enough PF1 material to last them the rest of their lives.

 

[Jimmy Dick]

I mean, given Paizo is literally giving away almost everything they've published for PF2 in PDF format along wit the hardcopy core book in the humble bundle, it's hard to imagine that is currently the case for PF2. And it doesn't seem to be the case with 5e either, as their core books continue to be the best sellers 6 years in.

Paizo didn't give away anything. They made over a million dollars in sales. Consider the only physical property involved in that bundle was the CRB, and while that was a great price, it wasn't the main seller. Everything else sold was digital. The only costs involved were the actual development and design of the product, not its printing cost, or transportation to the store. They sold 47, 954 units for a total of $1,124,470.53 which averages $23.45 per unit. I do not know how much went to the three charities involved, the Carl Brandon Society, the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, and the National Urban League, so I cannot say how that affects the final outcome. What they are doing is priming the pump for the second season of Pathfinder Second Edition. For all I know, they mat their production costs of all of those products via they physical print version. Any pdf sales would be profit on top of that.

This is where the pdf versions of products really boost product sales and company profitability. Eventually everything appears online in pdf form sooner or later. I don't know if Paizo took advantage of the time window to boost sales and profitability. I do not have a line into their marketing department. Then again, maybe they just wanted to raise money for three really good charities.

Last year they ran a Humble Bundle for Pathfinder First Edition. I do not recall what the final amounts were, but I know quite a few people who bought pdfs of everything they offered which was pretty much 90% of the rulebooks.

I can tell you this though. A million dollars worth of pdf products is a lot more profitable than a million dollars worth of print products for practically all companies.

 

[Stacie GmrGrl]

No way should 5E Compatible take a spot on list like this. It's a list for the top 5 single biggest selling products. Having a group of compatible to 5e take a spot is just wrong.

 

[Parmandur]

No way should 5E Compatible take a spot on list like this. It's a list for the top 5 single biggest selling products. Having a group of compatible to 5e take a spot is just wrong.

Based on "5E Compatible" coming in at #3 overall, ICv2 probably thought it wouldn't represent the state of the market to their trade audience to not include that as pertinent business information.

 

[Mistwell]

Paizo didn't give away anything. They made over a million dollars in sales

The price of the core book alone is more than $30 normally. So yeah, the rest is all being thrown in free. And by doing that, they loose any chance people will buy that same product in the future - given they already have it for free. Plus they gave away more of their small amount of profit to charity with this one. I do not think they "made" much money at all in this deal. You know, given the cost of that big print book and all the rest is fairly high, and is NOT "printing costs" but is in fact the price of all their overhead for the business. As someone who has run a manufacturing business exclusively for 15 years now in addition to advising other businesses, I know well that the primary cost of all products is the overhead, and not the raw manufacturing cost. Raw manufacturing costs are a fraction of the total cost. Usually I can multiple the raw cost by 4 to get to break-even.

What they are doing is priming the pump for the second season of Pathfinder Second Edition.

Could be. But usually it's a bad sign to sell your entire product line for drastically less than it's MSRP this early in the product line. It usually means their going for quick cash at the expense of long term profit when a company does something like that. But, it doesn't HAVE to mean that. It could be what you're saying, it's just that all the other signs about PF2 that I've mentioned don't point to this being what you're saying.

I can tell you this though. A million dollars worth of pdf products is a lot more profitable than a million dollars worth of print products for practically all companies.

Again, it includes the full size hardback core rulebook. The physical copy. And, it includes all the overhead from the company for all those products. It's funny that you mention their marketing department and then discount the cost of the marketing department to zero in your assessment of it being all "profit". My guess is almost none of this was profit. They may have even lost money in the long term with this.

 

[macd21]

Based on "5E Compatible" coming in at #3 overall, ICv2 probably thought it wouldn't represent the state of the market to their trade audience to not include that as pertinent business information.

Yeah, this. Odds are whatever came in 6th this time round had sales that are dwarfed by the sheer number of 5E Compatible products. Having Star Wars or Shadowrun or whatever in the list wouldn’t provide an accurate picture of the market, because the truth is people are buying loads of DnD (both WotC and 3PP) and PF books, and everything else is an also-ran.