Why don’t players surrender... would we want them too?

[Ulfgeir]

I didn’t disagree with that, however we’re talking about fiction and story telling. The great escape, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Pirates of the Caribbean, Lord of the Rings, film after film has surrender scenes. I’m not sure people draw on real world history more than they do media.

The game The Troubleshooters has built-in from the beginning that you are supposed to get captured (and then escape). Getting yourself captured gives you a LOT of story-points that you then can use for your abilities, or to plant stuff in the scenes, or to switch your rolls (switch place of the tens and the ones, on the d100-roll).

Vice verse, it is also a game that explicitly is not about cold-blooded murders. Yes an opponent might be killed in the heat of the battle. If you kill the same oppponent in cold blood, you do NOT get any XP for that session.

Can you die in it, yes, but you would then have to actively choose to die.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Surrender is always an option. It may result in death via horrible torture, but it’s an option.

There’s a very high chance that unless the PCs effect a very fast escape their magical gear will be distributed as spoils of battle and may never be recovered, I.e. all their gear won’t be sitting on a table in a room next to their prison cell.

 

[Jd Smith1]

There’s a very high chance that unless the PCs effect a very fast escape their magical gear will be distributed as spoils of battle and may never be recovered, I.e. all their gear won’t be sitting on a table in a room next to their prison cell.

For my players, that would be literally a fate worse than death. They value gear (regardless of campaign setting) above all else.

 

[cmad1977]

It’s not cool to invent a position no one holds and repeatedly knock it down. They have a word for that but it has a rather snarky connotation.

no one here is saying PCs can’t die. Once you accept that youll find your interactions going a lot more smoothly.

That’s been clearly explained... a few times. Which is weird that it NEEDED to be explained because it was clear from the OP but...

 

[TheSword]

The game The Troubleshooters has built-in from the beginning that you are supposed to get captured (and then escape). Getting yourself captured gives you a LOT of story-points that you then can use for your abilities, or to plant stuff in the scenes, or to switch your rolls (switch place of the tens and the ones, on the d100-roll).

Vice verse, it is also a game that explicitly is not about cold-blooded murders. Yes an opponent might be killed in the heat of the battle. If you kill the same oppponent in cold blood, you do NOT get any XP for that session.

Can you die in it, yes, but you would then have to actively choose to die.

I think that’s a really good point that the experience is gained for defeating the enemy, not for killing them. There shouldn’t be XP for killing someone already defeated in some computer game like automation.

In fact you could award story experience for creative use of captives.

I’ve been running a 5e conversion of Kingmaker, and the party had tough decisions about some of the small bandit bands that are clearly outmatched and surrender. They have generally given them the choice of surrender their weapons and help build a new kingdom or be tried and executed as bandits. This may not be much of a choice but it is fair. If some of those same bandits are found again causing problems no doubt they will have had their chance. That’s the price of a lawful good rulership of a kingdom. One chance and there’s a new sherif in town. I fully intend the PCs to confront a group of bandits who take advantage of the PCs mercy to present a moral dilemma. However I will also balance this by showing how bandits they released contributed to society.

 

[cmad1977]

For my players, that would be literally a fate worse than death. They value gear (regardless of campaign setting) above all else.

That’s a pretty unrealistic set of characters.

 

[Eric V]

I disagree. If the PCs can't die, IMO, what is the point of combat? Save a lot of dice rolling, and just announce a victory, hand out the loot, and move on.

It feels like a 'participation trophy' sort of thing. If the PCs can't die, what success can they claim? This is not a rhetorical question.

I'm not saying it is wrong, I'm pointing out that I don't understand.

OTOH, we could also say "If players just whip up another PC, what's the point of combat?"

Character death in an RPG would be meaningful if the player couldn't play anymore

 

[Jd Smith1]

That’s a pretty unrealistic set of characters.

You never met people who liked nice things a lot? Cars, houses, etc?

In years past I've worked more than one RL murder that occured because a car was dinged.

 

[Derren]

I think that’s a really good point that the experience is gained for defeating the enemy, not for killing them. There shouldn’t be XP for killing someone already defeated in some computer game like automation.

In fact you could award story experience for creative use of captives.

I’ve been running a 5e conversion of Kingmaker, and the party had tough decisions about some of the small bandit bands that are clearly outmatched and surrender. They have generally given them the choice of surrender their weapons and help build a new kingdom or be tried and executed as bandits. This may not be much of a choice but it is fair. If some of those same bandits are found again causing problems no doubt they will have had their chance. That’s the price of a lawful good rulership of a kingdom. One chance and there’s a new sherif in town. I fully intend the PCs to confront a group of bandits who take advantage of the PCs mercy to present a moral dilemma. However I will also balance this by showing how bandits they released contributed to society.

"Surrender their weapons and help build the kingdom" sounds like slavery...
Which is of course a sensible option.

One problem and source of disconnect, is that many people apply modern morality to a setting which, at least on the outside, is based on medieval/renaissance times.

 

[pemerton]

The moat recent capture event I remember in a campaign was in Classic Traveller. As described in more detail here, the PCs surrendered to a more powerful force. Most were beaten into unconsciousness in the course of interrogation, but one was able to overcome the guard (wrestling away the latter's SMG) and then steal the battle dress from the NPCs (its NPC owner was just coming out of the shower at the time). Equipped with battle dress, the PC in question was able to defeat the NPCs and save all but one of the other PCs.

That was the second surrender/capture/escape episode in this campaign. The first was starship-based rather than on-world; on that occasion the PCs managed to turn the tables and take control of the enemy starship. (Which was handy, as the PCs' starship had been disabled in the firefight that preceded their surrender.)