Level Up (A5E) What is off the table?

[JiffyPopTart]

It seems off the table that it will be a pile of rules modules to add on to of an existing 5e game, and instead will be a "forked" game from 5e.

In a strange way, I think this might make it harder for me to introduce to my table. If it was a set of modules I could just plop them into the existing game as desired. With an entirely new game built around the options, I would have to go through the entire thing and perhaps import systems Y and Z to incorporate only system X into my campaign.

I can see why making an all new thing is a design goal, though. I just am not sure it would get to the table instead of the 5e everyone already knows.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think that a handful of people have unrealistic hopes about nothing more powerful than stock & other similar lines that are looking at a real
7 reasonable concern in the wrong way. It's perfectly fine to have specific things that are more "powerful" than an existing thing they replace; but the important part is that those/other things offset that power in other ways so that the end result is not just more of 5e's "feats are optional so it doesn't matter if there are obvious 1 step major problems" or rifts splatbook style rocket-like power explosion over core.

@Sabathius42 I've used parts of giffyglyph's darker dungeons & that's basically a collection of optional rules. Introducing more than one or two at the table was far more work than "lets play dcc next week" or any of a few other systems we played for weeks to months. 5e itself is almost entirely one off edge case rules with little if any structural framework making it extremely difficult to replace significant parts without massive rewrites of all kinds of stuff.

 

[Umbran]

What I'd really like to know is: how differently will this play compared to vanilla 5e?

How about we instead ask the more answerable, "Are there any design goals for how this will play as compare to standard 5e?" Because it will be many months before anyone can really answer your question

 

[Umbran]

They can ask - is X strictly better than Y - and they can plan scenarios for playtesting that check X against a decent range of options.

Yes. And that will help, of course.

I'm not saying it will be a crummy game or anything. I'm saying that some power creep is nigh inevitable as you increase options, because more options means more optimization opportunities, and that we should set our expectations accordingly.

It is a reasonable design goal to have character in this game be backwards compatible with 5e, in terms of the mechanics working. I am not sure it is a reasonable goal to say, that this game will have more options and we will be sure that the characters in it will be balanced in power with standard 5e characters. I would expect that characters built in this system will, with a small amount of effort, generally be a tad more effective if you dropped them into a standard 5e party.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yes. And that will help, of course.

I'm not saying it will be a crummy game or anything. I'm saying that some power creep is nigh inevitable as you increase options, because more options means more optimization opportunities, and that we should set our expectations accordingly.

It is a reasonable design goal to have character in this game be backwards compatible with 5e, in terms of the mechanics working. I am not sure it is a reasonable goal to say, that this game will have more options and we will be sure that the characters in it will be balanced in power with standard 5e characters. I would expect that characters built in this system will, with a small amount of effort, generally be a tad more effective if you dropped them into a standard 5e party.

I agree with this in principle. However, it's very easy to design something thinking X will be a tad more effective where X ends up being vastly superior when combined with a few other options.

 

[Haldrik]

I've avoided getting involved in some threads because I didn't want to get involved in the flame wars that were brewing up over certain topics. But I've also posted in threads where discussion just kinda died, because you reach a point where you can't really go anywhere without any feedback from those who are doing the development.

Does the idea not work with their vision? Is it something they're interested in, but would need tweaking? Is it something they like? Is it a design space they're not even interested in tackling? Are they making something of their own, and user discussion is a pointless exercise that's just going to be ignored? There's no way to know, because Morrus et al aren't talking. And without any direction, either the discussion just dies, or a handful of people burn thread space on circular arguments that don't go anywhere, and just drive people off.

There will be a playtest soon, so that would tentatively offer a direction.

 

[Morrus]

I've avoided getting involved in some threads because I didn't want to get involved in the flame wars that were brewing up over certain topics. But I've also posted in threads where discussion just kinda died, because you reach a point where you can't really go anywhere without any feedback from those who are doing the development.

Does the idea not work with their vision? Is it something they're interested in, but would need tweaking? Is it something they like? Is it a design space they're not even interested in tackling? Are they making something of their own, and user discussion is a pointless exercise that's just going to be ignored? There's no way to know, because Morrus et al aren't talking.

I mean, we can write a book or spend our time participating in every thread on the forum. We’ll have a first playtest soon.

 

[FrogReaver]

I mean, we can write a book or spend our time participating in every thread on the forum. We’ll have a first playtest soon.

yea, I find multitasking difficult as well

perhaps you would benefit from a community engagement manager. A liaison between us and the A5e designers?

 

[Morrus]

yea, I find multitasking difficult as well

perhaps you would benefit from a community engagement manager. A liaison between us and the A5e designers?

To do what? Just randomly chat?

 

[FrogReaver]

To do what? Just randomly chat?

to avoid situations where you turn off the community by putting your foot in Your mouth.

people you are selling to don’t appreciate you acting like their ideas are dumb in public.