D&D General Greyhawk and "Low Magic" : Why Low Magic is in the Eyes of Beholder

Now you are talking about something completely different. That's not adapting, that's advancing the timeline. And whether or not to do that is extremely controversial. Many Greyhawk fans do not like later additions to the setting, and would rather the timeline be reset, which is what ERFTLW does, and what GoS seems to do.

Just a point: Eberron wasn't reset; it's never left 998yk. That said, every edition has subtly retconned it; 4e added feyspires, dragonborn and tieflings and revised the planes to fit with the World Axis model. 5e ditched all that except for the races, but then added a connection between dwarves and daelkyr that didn't exist in 3e or 4e. All without advancing the timeline.

You might not be a purist, but many Greyhawk fans are. Who should WotC try to please? The Greyhawk fans who want to keep the later stuff, or those who would prefer the clock to be reset? Who is right?

There is a third way; reset the timeline but keep details from later books and have everything set up to prepare for the Greyhawk wars, so that if someone wants to use FtA, they can just advance the timeline appropriately. It's a compromise for purists and later fans, and new fans probably will never be the wiser and use the "on the edge" compromise.
 

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There is a third way; reset the timeline but keep details from later books and have everything set up to prepare for the Greyhawk wars, so that if someone wants to use FtA, they can just advance the timeline appropriately. It's a compromise for purists and later fans, and new fans probably will never be the wiser and use the "on the edge" compromise.
Yep, you are absolutely right on that one. I am an old fan, but I really loved what had been done with the From the Ashes timeline. At the same time, a lot of the compromises (an in between the lines) would also require a lot of work that I do not have the time to do my self. Which classes and subclasse would go into:
Knights of the Hart
Knights of the Great kingdoms.
The Scarlet Brotherhood.
The Boneheart.
The Animuses.
The Clergy of Hextor as vilains has a lot of stuff open in the FtA. You have to rely on fan stuff to make it so. But something official would be welcomed.

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr................................
They should just open Greyhawk to DM Guild and be done with it.
Or Make a contest as to the best new iteration of GH and let the winner make the "official" new Greyhawk.

You see, for me Greyhawk is both less defined than the FR and a lot more defined.
Let me explain.
A lot of the details are left opened to the DM. It is almost free form and very basic.
Yet, countries are well defined in their borders, alliances and short and long term goals. The political aspect of Greyhawk is so well defined that the FR is pale in comparison. You pick a country in Greyhawk and you immediately know its borders, its allies and its enemies. You know where its influences stop and where it makes contested claims. The same can't be done so easily in FR. Where does the true influence of the Luskan ends on the main land? Where are its consteted lands? Are there any? How about Waterdeep? It is allied with Silvermoon that is thousands of miles away from it... The realm is more filled with city states than it is with nations (at least the sword coast fits this bill). Greyhawk has more nations than city states.

A nation offers a lot of opportunities that city states does not. Example, the Kingdom of Furyondy is allied with Veluna, Vesve and the Shield lands. It made tentative alliance parlay with the County and Duchy of Urnst, the Kingdom of Nyrond, the City of Dyvers and the city of Greyhawk. All these can be within easy (relatively speaking) of the Furyondan lands. It makes sense to have close allies. Who are the allies of Baldur's Gate? We know they are "friendly" competitors with Elturel because of the DiA adventures but anything more than that? Who are its enemies? Do they have real ally that will come to the aid of the city states if necessity calls? And if so, where are they? Thousands of miles seperating you from your allies practically means that you have no allies.

Greyhawk is a land of kingdoms and political intrigue with fantasy elements mixed in.
 

Just a point: Eberron wasn't reset; it's never left 998yk. That said, every edition has subtly retconned it; 4e added feyspires, dragonborn and tieflings and revised the planes to fit with the World Axis model. 5e ditched all that except for the races, but then added a connection between dwarves and daelkyr that didn't exist in 3e or 4e. All without advancing the timeline.
Feyspires are mentioned in Exploring Eberron.
 



Because there would be no reason to mention them, since they aren't in the part of the world the book focuses on. Books are finite, just because something is not mentioned does not mean it does not exist.
But important enough to be in the 4e world guide and then not mentioned in 5e one. I wager that is due to eladrin not being a core race any longer.

Still does nothing to explain the appearance and disappearance of Baator in the cosmology...

Anyway, the point is settings can be retconned and new things added even if the timeline is reset or not advanced.
 

Ghosts of Saltmarsh, while a collection of adventures is still set in Greyhawk (by default). It has a nice overview of the city itself and expressly discusses magic item availability etc. Characters can procure common items for 75gp and can (in theory) even get legendary items (though where a low level character gets 50,000 is beyond me). Regardless in a town of 5,000 characters have full access to magic.

Edit: (Ok looking at it closer items from DMG tables G and F are available - but that's still a lot of high power stuff!)

Whether you agree that this should be so or not, this is how the writers and designers have chosen to portray the setting.

So i definitely got the opinion that the magic level in GH is normal to high, comparable to FR.
But did i interpret your post correctly? Basically if you got the dosh you can easily buy magic items in a fishing dorf?
i would not handle it that way high magic or not.
 


For an order of magnitude, the Greyhawk map is 4500 miles x 3000 miles (or about 150 hexes by 100 hexes). That is big about 4 times (more or less) the size of USA (not counting Alaska).
so FR and GH are about similar, converted to real distances?

Can we make similar numbers for population density and demographics for both?
That would be superneat.
 

So i definitely got the opinion that the magic level in GH is normal to high, comparable to FR.
But did i interpret your post correctly? Basically if you got the dosh you can easily buy magic items in a fishing dorf?
i would not handle it that way high magic or not.

In GOS, there is a specific NPC (Captain Xendros) who will broker magic item purchases.

On the one hand, it does give it some flavor. Both because the PCs would have to deal with an agent of Iuz and get caught up in that, and because

any item they purchase from the Captain is cursed, and will allow the Captain to monitor them with detect thoughts (no save, no range limit).

That's good flavor.

On the other hand- eh, I hate magic item shopping.
 
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