D&D General Greyhawk and "Low Magic" : Why Low Magic is in the Eyes of Beholder

[Snarf Zagyg]

so FR and GH are about similar, converted to real distances?

Can we make similar numbers for population density and demographics for both?
That would be superneat.

No. There is an onoging debate about this. primarily because of the population density in the Gygaxian Greyhawk makes for grim reading once you understand it.

 

[Mort]

So i definitely got the opinion that the magic level in GH is normal to high, comparable to FR.
But did i interpret your post correctly? Basically if you got the dosh you can easily buy magic items in a fishing dorf?
i would not handle it that way high magic or not.

Yes, that's how it is. Some items are available immediately (determined randomly from tables A-F), specific items (from table F or G) can be procured with 1-4 weeks time.

Now, the reason the items are available is that there's a trading vessel from the Empire of Iuz there to sell stuff - but she's at a town of 5,000, she's there all the time and big items are available.

 

[Mort]

In GOS, there is a specific NPC (Captain Xendros) who will broker magic item purchases.

On the one hand, it does give it some flavor. Both because the PCs would have to deal with an agent of Iuz and get caught up in that, and because any item they purchase from the Captain is cursed, and will allow the Captain to monitor them with detect thoughts (no save, no range limit). That's good flavor.

On the other hand- eh, I hate magic item shopping.

I'm in the same boat, great flavor and I love the curse (I've done similar with attuned items I give out - why wouldn't the party giving /crafting the item have an agenda?) but it's a lot for a small town.

Still, not too hard to control if players don't get access to ridiculous amounts of gold.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Still, not too hard to control if players don't get access to ridiculous amounts of gold.

....famous last words of every D&D campaign, ever.

 

[MarkB]

Low magic is hard to describe as everyone has such wildly diffrent views. And even more crazy is a lot of people get stuck in the middle and can't pr won't see beyond that. Lord of the Rings is a good example of a Low Magic Setting: just about no spellcasters, only a handful of weak magic items and just about no magical evneroment. And yet there are people who will disagree and say LotR is a crazy high magic setting. But there is on way it can be when you consider, say a world of five trillion people that can use Wish at will as a supernatural ability. Wish world would be a high magic world, there is no doubt......and LotR is not even close to that.

None of the D&D settings that are considered High Magic are even close to that either.

 

[Helldritch]

In GOS, there is a specific NPC (Captain Xendros) who will broker magic item purchases.

On the one hand, it does give it some flavor. Both because the PCs would have to deal with an agent of Iuz and get caught up in that, and because any item they purchase from the Captain is cursed, and will allow the Captain to monitor them with detect thoughts (no save, no range limit). That's good flavor.

On the other hand- eh, I hate magic item shopping.

Stop spoiling the consequences!
I too hate magic item shopping. But potions and scrolls on the hand...

No. There is an onoging debate about this. primarily because of the population density in the Gygaxian Greyhawk makes for grim reading once you understand it.

And this is an other reason why I said Greyhawk was a dark and foreboding place. The good races are declining. Humans are not that numerous and the evil "humanoids" are just about everywhere. This is not a place where good is firmly entrenched.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Stop spoiling the consequences!

D'oh! I didn't even think about it. I edited and put the text in spoilers.

 

[Hussar]

For an order of magnitude, the Greyhawk map is 4500 miles x 3000 miles (or about 150 hexes by 100 hexes). That is big about 4 times (more or less) the size of USA (not counting Alaska).

Sorry, I don't mean to be lazy, but, if someone else has done the work, I'd actually really like to see the comparison. So, the Flanaess (Darlene Map) is about 4500x3000 miles. Note, there's an awful lot of that map that's water too, so, we're not just talking about land mass here.

And, @Snarf Zagyg - you mention the demographics. I've never delved that deeply into an analysis of the demographics. Is there something I can see?

Again, sorry for being a lazy git, but, I really don't want to do the work myself.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

For a quick primer on the debate regarding 1e Greyhawk, this is as good an intro to the subject as any:

The Howling Emptiness of the World of Greyhawk

“ Humankind is fragmented into isolationist realms, indifferent nations, evil lands, and states striving for good...Nomads, bandits, and...

hillcantons.blogspot.com

Post-Apocalyptic D&D: Greyhawk vs. Wilderlands

“ ...the Alliance constructed a fortress north of the base constructed to accommodate the large bodied elder scientists (later to be calle...

hillcantons.blogspot.com

There's a snippet of the debate from here:

Population explosion in World of Greyhawk?

In reading the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, I kept getting the feeling that the Flanaess was a bit more crowded than what I used to think. One reason I love(d) WoG so much was the feeling of lots of wide open, wild, unsettled territory. The land was ripe for exploring and adventuring. But now it...

www.enworld.org

The gist is that the population was upscaled. There are deep dives on other forums like Canonfire, but that's a lot of work.

Basically, the difference is often overlooked, but implies quite a bit about the type of world you have.

 

[Helldritch]

Sorry, I don't mean to be lazy, but, if someone else has done the work, I'd actually really like to see the comparison. So, the Flanaess (Darlene Map) is about 4500x3000 miles. Note, there's an awful lot of that map that's water too, so, we're not just talking about land mass here.

And, @Snarf Zagyg - you mention the demographics. I've never delved that deeply into an analysis of the demographics. Is there something I can see?

Again, sorry for being a lazy git, but, I really don't want to do the work myself.

Yep, But you asked about the map size, or did I get this wrong? Anyhow, the map has about a quarter water. So this means Greyhawk is about 3 times the USA (not counting Alaska). That is a big place to explore. And a lot of islands are not shown. A DM might be tempted to bring a big island that has been previously undiscovered (Isle of Dread anyone?) or anything else that might come to his/her mind.