D&D 5E Single class Hexblade - missing something?

[Flamestrike]

First, start killing turtles (or rabbits, or rats) 1 hour before dawn. Cast Hex, kill the critter, and then take a short rest.

Get told 'No' and 'I'f you ever try that again, you wont be invited back'.

 

[Ancalagon]

Do you mean eldritch smite? And I don't see how you get both effects for 1 slot.
Other than that it is worth noticing, that technically using warlock spell slots in place of spell slots for divine smite is not allowed, since the multiclass blurb about magic and pact magic only speaks about using one in place of the other to cast spells (not special abilities).

I think that to "double smite" in one hit, you would have to spend 2 slots. The Eldritch smite specifically requires a warlock slot. However, the paladin class only says "you expend a spell slot" - it doesn't say where that spell slot comes from.

edit: Also - that is, yet again, a multi-class fix to the problem...

 

[Flamestrike]

I think that to "double smite" in one hit, you would have to spend 2 slots. The Eldritch smite specifically requires a warlock slot. However, the paladin class only says "you expend a spell slot" - it doesn't say where that spell slot comes from.

edit: Also - that is, yet again, a multi-class fix to the problem...

There is no problem.

I play a lot of Hexblades, but my campaign meta is that Short rests are 5 minutes long (max 2 per long rest) and we tend to get 6 or so encounters (or more) in during most adventuring days.

6 Slots per day. 1 Reserved for Hex for most of the day till Shadows of Moil comes online. 3 Hexblades Curses per day as well for when you really want something dead.

Half Elf with GWM and Elven Accuracy (our meta has a bonus feat at 1st level).

I have some Sorcerer levels in there most times for some additional petrol in the tank for Shield Spells and the like.

Trick is to play it like a Fighter (most of your invocations will be tied up in Thirsting blade, Eldritch Smite, and maybe Improved Pact weapon and Agonizing blast for your ranged option).

 

[Ancalagon]

There is no problem.

ok...

Half Elf with GWM and Elven Accuracy (our meta has a bonus feat at 1st level).

That's nice, more feats. But strange that this is an elven only solution.

I have some Sorcerer levels in there most times for some additional petrol in the tank for Shield Spells and the like.

aaaaaaaand there we have it. "there is no problem with a single class hexblade! just multiclass!"

That's what I've been trying to say! "you run out of gas fast.". Even you take a few levels of sorcerer for a bit of additional petrol l (and more cantrips, let's not forget that).

Trick is to play it like a Fighter (most of your invocations will be tied up in Thirsting blade, Eldritch Smite, and maybe Improved Pact weapon and Agonizing blast for your ranged option).

Again, leaving you with very few out of combat magical utility.

 

[Flamestrike]

aaaaaaaand there we have it. "there is no problem with a single class hexblade! just multiclass!"

Well no.

Compare a 5th level GWM Cha 18 Hexblade (Improved pact weapon, Eldritch smite, Thirsting blade) with a 5th level GWM Battlemaster (Str 18). assuming 2 short rests/ tong rest

The Fighter has 3 x Action surges and 12 x d8 sup dice. His AC is likely 1 point higher (half plate v full plate) and he has more HP (d10's and a higher Con score, and 3 x second winds).

The Hexblade gets +1 to hit and damage, deals an extra +1d6 damage with every attack from Hex, has 5 slots (3rd level) left over for smites (an extra 20 x d8 damage right there), and has 3 x Hexblades curses to work with putting him on par with the Action surges.

The Hexblade does considerably more damage over the adventuring day than the Fighter, beating the Fighter as his own game. He isnt as durable (although he gets some healing from his Hexblades curse) and he can sacrifice some of that higher offensive power for spells (Fly, misty step, Counter spell, Armor of Agathys etc).

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Barbarian is better without raging (HP is much better) and much better when raging
Fighter: You have an extra feat, a fighting style, action surge, better armor, maybe battlemaster maneuvers
Paladin: You have better armor and a fighting style, and your defensive aura. You probably have a slot or two left for a spell or a smite
Ranger: Not so great, but again you might have a spell or two left
College of sword bard: you definitely have spells left and you are essentially a mini-battle master

The hexblade can "step up" to that level of fighting with the use of magic. Without... mediocre.


Lastly - how was the specter?

The specter is what you are forgetting (that and the significantly increased critical hits) - it's about the best combat pet available to any class. It's resistant to most damage, giving it respectable survivability, it's attacks do good damage (3d6) and reduce maximum hp. And it can walk through walls. And it doesn't use the warlock's action economy to attack. Give your single class hexblade a flat +10 DPR when trying to whiteroom it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think that to "double smite" in one hit, you would have to spend 2 slots. The Eldritch smite specifically requires a warlock slot. However, the paladin class only says "you expend a spell slot" - it doesn't say where that spell slot comes from.

edit: Also - that is, yet again, a multi-class fix to the problem...

Yes it would be a multiclass fix. But the expand a spell slot is a paladin ability and in the first Printing it actually stated that it needs to be a paladin spell slot (and was only changed, because paladin slot was no game term), so you might actually have insight in what was the intent ath that time at least.

My reading isn't actually mine, but a note from Jeremy Crawford. And after reading the multiclass rules this is a legit reading. Multiclass rules don't actually assume everything stacks and make exceptions (blacklist) but they explicietely state what does work (whitelist) and using pact magic to fuel special abilities is not on the list. And this reading fixes many problematic optimized builds.

I do however think, for consistency's sake warlock spell should be renamed pact magic slot (in every invocation actually... although you could argue that for those 1/day invocations it should be scrapped altogether) , because that is how his spellcasting ability is called.

 

[Ancalagon]

Well no.

Compare a 5th level GWM Cha 18 Hexblade (Improved pact weapon, Eldritch smite, Thirsting blade) with a 5th level GWM Battlemaster (Str 18). assuming 2 short rests/ tong rest

The Fighter has 3 x Action surges and 12 x d8 sup dice. His AC is likely 1 point higher (half plate v full plate) and he has more HP (d10's and a higher Con score, and 3 x second winds).

The Hexblade gets +1 to hit and damage, deals an extra +1d6 damage with every attack from Hex, has 5 slots (3rd level) left over for smites (an extra 20 x d8 damage right there), and has 3 x Hexblades curses to work with putting him on par with the Action surges.

The Hexblade does considerably more damage over the adventuring day than the Fighter, beating the Fighter as his own game. He isnt as durable (although he gets some healing from his Hexblades curse) and he can sacrifice some of that higher offensive power for spells (Fly, misty step, Counter spell, Armor of Agathys etc).

hmmmmm....

First you didn't consider the fighting style, which will boos the fighter's damage (or AC).

Second there is no way hex will last the whole day. The hexblade will get hit and fail a concentration check sooner or later. Others has stated that it is not the best spell for a hexblade and I tend to agree.

the battlemaster maneuvers have utility on top of the damage. So does smite, but you get this advantage 12 times over 5.

 

[NotAYakk]

Get told 'No' and 'I'f you ever try that again, you wont be invited back'.

It is also a great way to tell if your DM is a naughty word naughty word, good point.

If your DM responds with something like that, they are an entitled control prick, and you should avoid them like the toxic mess they are.

What kind of person would talk to someone they are playing a friendly game of D&D like that and expect it is acceptable?

They may be charismatic, but when someone starts abusing power with ultimatims like that over something trivial, you should walk away.

Bad D&D is worse than no D&D, and investing time in a game with a toxic DM is a recipie for either accepting more abuse down the lane, or dissapointment.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

It's not made explicit, but the general principle of the multiclassing rules in PHB p164 is that similar features obtained from different classes do not stack. Obviously smite is not mentioned because there was no way for a warlock to get that ability at the time the PHB was published.