D&D General Hit Point alternate to + CON mod?

[77IM]

Another way to balance Con would be to replace death saves with Con ability checks. So sure, you can dump Con and it doesn't matter much, until suddenly it does.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Another way to balance Con would be to replace death saves with Con ability checks. So sure, you can dump Con and it doesn't matter much, until suddenly it does.

Yep! I recommended that it this post:

D&D General - Hit Point alternate to + CON mod?

I'm assuming possible changes would come in a 5.5e/6e, so while they're hopefully (but probably not) doing these changes, they can just create a new skill called Endurance, which is Constitution based. That would be used for swimming, holding up weights for a long time (the amount you can hold...

www.enworld.org

 

[CubicsRube]

or,

remove CON and paste it's mechanics to STR.

I love this idea but it'd never happen.

I guess that's why I play SotDL..

 

[CubicsRube]

I've been thinking about going back to 4E style Con. No Con to HP per level, but add Con score to HP at first level and add Con mod to HP healed per hit die. So high con will give you a little more hp to start (your meat), and it will help you recover faster (your endurance), but your class and level will determine the bulk of your hp.

My favorite thing about HP in 4th edition was I actually saw lower Con characters. Players didn't feel like they had to boost their con all the time. In 5th, I tend to see Com 14 all the time. At least 12.

I absolutely like this approach due to a slight front load on survivability at 1st level.

It also sits well with my meat/non meat scale as any damage to CON are physical wounds that I would allow to heal only 1 per day, and hit points are luck/stamina that are recovered on a rest.

 

[CubicsRube]

While we're on it, I think Survival should be tied to CON by default.

 

[Horwath]

While we're on it, I think Survival should be tied to CON by default.

No, it shouldn't.

No reason for it.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

or,

remove CON and paste it's mechanics to STR.

Terrible idea. Every Wizard now looks like Hulk... Also wrestling poison and diseases down is a bit problematic. You can be healthy and weak or vice versa.

 

[Aldarc]

Terrible idea. Every Wizard now looks like Hulk... Also wrestling poison and diseases down is a bit problematic. You can be healthy and weak or vice versa.

Is it? There are games with attributes other than D&D's that get along just fine and don't have the sort of problems you are predicting here. It's likely that if Gygax had used only four or five attributes, people would be arguing in favor of those instead of the hegemonic six.

 

[TwoSix]

I see two general conceptual problems with Con.

1) D&D is primarily a game of resource attrition. Most of the resources the game gives you that are intrinsic to your character (hit points, hit die, spells, class abilities) already have a narration/justification around the character using their innate toughness and willpower to stave off defeat by leveraging their resources. Even if Con is divorced from HP, a character using a high Con and a character using their high HP total are trying to tell the same story, which then makes Con extraneous.

2) Most modern fantasy tends to depict endurance as a function of mental willpower, rather than physical toughness. This is especially prevalent in anime and comic books, and also fantasy that derives from similar inspirations.

If you divorce Con from HP, you need to draft another narrative around what a high-Con character looks like and is capable of. Realistically, that might be a 6e project, since so few things in 5e plug into Con right now.

 

[Coroc]

Due to the abstract nature of HP (skill, luck, endurance, favor of the gods, etc.) we house-ruled for a while that you can add your highest ability score modifier to your HP when you level, not just CON.

But, since then our desire to remove HP bloat from the game, you add your highest ability score modifier ONCE (at level 1) and then just gain HD when you level (no ability bonus). If your highest ability score modifier increases (likely), your HP also increase by the same amount.

It works well IMO, but to simplify things even further, we now just award +5 HP at level one (since nearly every PC gets a +5 ability modifier somewhere eventually), getting max HP at level 1 for your HD, and then only HD after level one.

So, the "rule" we use is. You do not add your CON modifier to HP. You gain +5 HP at level one and that's it.


This would work nicely, too.

Do you roll or average on lvlup?