Dragonlance [Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?

[Iry]

How often do you go back and try to interact with the soul of a party member a year dead?

I couldn't resist.

 

[Alzrius]

It's hinted there's another power over Ao, think she's the universe or something.

At the end of the Avatar Trilogy, we see Ao reporting to a higher power, who speaks in a multitude of voices (Ao's entry in Faiths & Avatars says that his superior is "a luminous being").

The author of the novel later let it slip that this was a reference to the myriad Dungeon Masters running Forgotten Realms campaigns.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It's hinted there's another power over Ao, think she's the universe or something.

DR the gods are real they set the rules. Don't like it tough.

Read Greek, Roman, Egyptian myths and legends or the bible even.

Fairness doesn't have a lot to do with it.

You are missing the point.

A Nobleman sets the rules of the land, they are real, and they are more powerful than the peasants beneath them. If they are displeased, they can kill you.

Should the peasant worship the nobleman as a God? The King is even more powerful, does he get worshipped as a God?

At what stage of power and prestige is someone worthy of worship? Just because they can punish you and torture you if you don't? That is a scarily low bar.

Because they say that they control the laws of the universe? So do wizards, and in actuality the Gods of FR do not control those laws, AO does. And he answers to an even higher power. So... what makes a God a God?

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It's roleplaying, it doesn't have to be looked at as win/lose. Sometimes it can just be an interesting encounter.

And what interesting encounter does the Wall offer us that could not be offered by a grey-Purgatory, or even the Astral Plane?

Sure, Atheist arguing with servant of the Gods can be interesting, but you don't need the Wall of the Faithless to do that.

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So, if it's never an issue, then why do you care?

Because as a setting detail it makes no sense. It would be like saying all the water in the world is salt water, but everything has adapted to that and everything still looks and acts the exact same.

In practice, it doesn't matter. As part of the setting, it is infuriatingly bad and makes things nonsensical.

 

[Zardnaar]

You are missing the point.

A Nobleman sets the rules of the land, they are real, and they are more powerful than the peasants beneath them. If they are displeased, they can kill you.

Should the peasant worship the nobleman as a God? The King is even more powerful, does he get worshipped as a God?

At what stage of power and prestige is someone worthy of worship? Just because they can punish you and torture you if you don't? That is a scarily low bar.

Because they say that they control the laws of the universe? So do wizards, and in actuality the Gods of FR do not control those laws, AO does. And he answers to an even higher power. So... what makes a God a God?

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And what interesting encounter does the Wall offer us that could not be offered by a grey-Purgatory, or even the Astral Plane?

Sure, Atheist arguing with servant of the Gods can be interesting, but you don't need the Wall of the Faithless to do that.

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Because as a setting detail it makes no sense. It would be like saying all the water in the world is salt water, but everything has adapted to that and everything still looks and acts the exact same.

In practice, it doesn't matter. As part of the setting, it is infuriatingly bad and makes things nonsensical.

Nobles are just a noble, the gods aren't omnipotent but the grant spells and miracles and can punish you in the afterlife.

And in that world they're real.

It's religion 101 and depending on the edition it can effect raise dead spells.

Fair? Probably not they're gods they don't have to be fair and for the most part they're beyond mortal power.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Nobles are just a noble, the gods aren't omnipotent but the grant spells and miracles and can punish you in the afterlife.

And in that world they're real.

So are Demon Lords, Archdevils, Archfey and Great Old Ones.

Asmodeus isn't omnipotent, can grant spells "perform miracles" (whatever that means) and punish you in the after life. And he is real.

Same with Graz'zt.

Same with Chthulu.

Same with The Queen of Air and Darkness (since a common dark fey trope is trapping a soul or spirit for endless torment)

So, are they all gods too?

Fair? Probably not they're gods they don't have to be fair and for the most part they're beyond mortal power.

"The most part" meaning they are not beyond mortal power. Which again leads credence to a question of "why should we worship these gods at all?"

 

[Zardnaar]

So are Demon Lords, Archdevils, Archfey and Great Old Ones.

Asmodeus isn't omnipotent, can grant spells "perform miracles" (whatever that means) and punish you in the after life. And he is real.

Same with Graz'zt.

Same with Chthulu.

Same with The Queen of Air and Darkness (since a common dark fey trope is trapping a soul or spirit for endless torment)

So, are they all gods too?



"The most part" meaning they are not beyond mortal power. Which again leads credence to a question of "why should we worship these gods at all?"

You're free to do that, in FR the consequences are known.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Fair? Probably not they're gods they don't have to be fair and for the most part they're beyond mortal power.

Are they, though?

 

[Zardnaar]

Are they, though?

In previous editions yes. Mortals couldn't kill them without help from another deity.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

In previous editions yes. Mortals couldn't kill them without help from another deity.

Eh, the line between mortal and god is pretty hazy.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You're free to do that, on FR the consequences are known.

Yep the consequence of being told my make-believe character doesn't go to make-believe heaven. Because the God of the Dead built a wall, and everyone was fine with punishing the people who don't worship them.

Who was that God of the Dead again? Oh right... a mortal who gained a whole lot of power. Current God of the Dead was a mortal too.