Dragonlance [Dragonlance/Faerun] Anyone here met any Cataclysm/Wall of the Faithless defenders?

[Azzy]

In previous editions yes. Mortals couldn't kill them without help from another deity.

In 2e maybe, in 1e & 3e not so much.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yep the consequence of being told my make-believe character doesn't go to make-believe heaven. Because the God of the Dead built a wall, and everyone was fine with punishing the people who don't worship them.

Who was that God of the Dead again? Oh right... a mortal who gained a whole lot of power. Current God of the Dead was a mortal too.

In both cases they had aid from other deities.

 

[Chaosmancer]

In both cases they had aid from other deities.

So, a mortal can become a god, of the gods allow it.

Or if they kill the god in the vein of Cyric or Finder wyvernspur

Or by kiling enough demons like Gargauth

Or by winning a challenge against a god like Valkur

And of course we have Savras who we don't know why they ascended, same with Torm, and Kiaransalee, and Deep Duerra and Elikarashae


You know for beings that mortals are supposed to worship without question, it is kind of strange how there are between 20 and 30 gods who were once mortals themselves. Makes you wonder how many of them were mortal at one point.

 

[Zardnaar]

So, a mortal can become a god, of the gods allow it.

Or if they kill the god in the vein of Cyric or Finder wyvernspur

Or by kiling enough demons like Gargauth

Or by winning a challenge against a god like Valkur

And of course we have Savras who we don't know why they ascended, same with Torm, and Kiaransalee, and Deep Duerra and Elikarashae


You know for beings that mortals are supposed to worship without question, it is kind of strange how there are between 20 and 30 gods who were once mortals themselves. Makes you wonder how many of them were mortal at one point.

Quite a few were, I'm not claiming mortals can't ascend.

There's millions of mortals, maybe 100 odd gods in the Faerunian pantheon which is 2 or 3 old pantheons that merged.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Quite a few were, I'm not claiming mortals can't ascend.

There's millions of mortals, maybe 100 odd gods in the Faerunian pantheon which is 2 or 3 old pantheons that merged.

Right, so if Mortals can become Gods, where is the justification that the Gods are beyond mortals?

There are millions of people in America, only about 40 are in the New York Yankees. Does that make Yankee players better than normal Americans? I mean, they make more money than me, they have more political clout than I do.

It goes back to my question about Nobles and Kings. Mortals can become Gods. Sometimes without the Gods aiding them, so what makes the gods so special that they need to be worshiped?

To the point that not worshipping them is deserving of torment and oblivion?

 

[Zardnaar]

Right, so if Mortals can become Gods, where is the justification that the Gods are beyond mortals?

There are millions of people in America, only about 40 are in the New York Yankees. Does that make Yankee players better than normal Americans? I mean, they make more money than me, they have more political clout than I do.

It goes back to my question about Nobles and Kings. Mortals can become Gods. Sometimes without the Gods aiding them, so what makes the gods so special that they need to be worshiped?

To the point that not worshipping them is deserving of torment and oblivion?

Difference is purely power. God's have control over their portfolio mortals don't.

They also are immortal.

A very powerful mortal and a meh demi God might be close in raw power.

 

[Orius]

The whole Wall of the Faithless seems like a symptom of the Realms being such a big shared setting with a large number of people building onto it every which way for over 30 years now. And quite frankly, it's one of those background things that usually has no meaningful impact on a typical game.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Difference is purely power. God's have control over their portfolio mortals don't.

They also are immortal.

A very powerful mortal and a meh demi God might be close in raw power.

Right, which is the argument people who do not worship the gods in Faerun tend to make.

The only difference between mortals and gods is power, and being powerful alone does not make you worthy of worship and veneration.

 

[Zardnaar]

Right, which is the argument people who do not worship the gods in Faerun tend to make.

The only difference between mortals and gods is power, and being powerful alone does not make you worthy of worship and veneration.

Yet the gods decide your fate in the afterlife. Don't follow one yeah they gave no incentive to collect your soul.

You don't have to follow one that's on your head along with the consequences.

 

[Dire Bare]

The whole Wall of the Faithless seems like a symptom of the Realms being such a big shared setting with a large number of people building onto it every which way for over 30 years now. And quite frankly, it's one of those background things that usually has no meaningful impact on a typical game.

Right, it has no impact until after a character has died.

However . . . I am picturing an adventure where a PC has died (or someone close to the PCs) and the party learns Kelemvor has placed this poor soul in the wall . . . time for a quest to the Fugue to rescue our pal unjustly mortared into the Wall of the Faithless! Maybe upend the pantheon while we're at it, if we're high enough level!