D&D 5E Making sense of D&D's Lore, History and Cosmology

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
I quite like the inconsistent nature of the body of D&D lore. I think of it as representing what different D&D cultures have believed to be true at different times in history. Us humans have had a wide diversity of beliefs about "how things are" for most of our history, so the same can be true in the D&D multiverse too.

In game, I can also use the inconsistencies to deal with players who might want to rely on player knowledge over character knowledge. A player familiar with the cute almiraj from Tomb of Annihilation will be quite surprised to face one of the 2nd Edition Monstrous Compendium variations that use psionic powers to darken the sky, whip up winds, ignite and burn equipment, and float around with glowing red eyes.

"But that's not an almiraj," gets rebuffed with "It's a pity that you didn't study the legends your people share of this unusual creature in more detail. If you had, you might have stumbled upon references to the subspecies known as abyss bunnies and been more prepared for this encounter."
 

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R_J_K75

Legend
I think conventional wisdom is to use the stuff you think is cool, ignore the stuff you don’t, and don’t worry too much about what continuity it’s from.
Yep. You just said what I was going to. I used to read alot and worry about this type of stuff until one day long ago a light bulb went off and I said, who cares? I understand the OP question; you need a certain amount of grounding in understanding how the multiverse of D&D works but in the end your game is you and your players, so make it your own. Once I stopped worrying overmuch of the interworkings of everything in D&D and just concentrated on making a good adventure its been liberating and has cast off the restraints of wanting to comply with the nuances and plots of whats written in a book. I hadnt heard about the Midnight Campaign setting until it was announced earlier this year that its was getting a 5E reboot in 2021, but I liked the concept. I was lucky enough to get the 1st and 2nd edition campaign setting books off of ebay cheap and put a group of players together to run a campaign in the setting. Out of the 600 or so pages in those 2 books I have read maybe 30. I read the overview then literally pointed at the map, picked a place (Swift Water ironically) and wrote an adventure and let me say its been alot of fun because Im not too overly concerned with what someone else wrote in a book or their vision. I learned that no matter how much I read on subject "x", unless I can convey that to my players it doesnt matter, As a DM your game is only as good as your players so you owe it to yourselves to make it yours.
 

Shiroiken

Legend
I agree that the lore of the mega-verse is pretty terrible. It's not surprising however, as the lore changes as they have new authors and different needs by edition. I tend to keep to the lore of 1E, occasionally tapping into 2E for some details that aren't mentioned in 1E. I can't help you with websites, as IME they are largely tied to the FR.
 

dave2008

Legend
I pick and choose general lore, setting lore, and my own from various editions to make something that feels reasonable to me. I focus mostly on 1e, 4e, & 5e lore as that is what I am most familiar with, but I sprinkle in interesting bits of 2e and 3e too.

EDIT: Also, I think about the cosmology mostly just for my own fun, it rarely, if ever, comes in our games.
 

dave2008

Legend
@TheAlkaizer , to answer your question on resources... the D&D Lore Wiki, that I contribute to, is cataloging official, general D&D lore. We usually leave the setting-specific stuff to other wikis, and take an edition-neutral approach otherwise. It's a tricky task at times, but D&D fandom seems to lack any other similar resource, so hopefully it can become something that helps folks like you out. (And if anyone reading this is interested, we could really use some help...)
@TheAlkaizer you have inspired me to join Fandom so I can edit the D&D Lore Wiki. I love the idea of a one stop shop for lore, but I can see you have a long way to go. I don't have a lot of time, but I will do what I can to help.
 


First, you basically need to decide between 4e and not-4e. There is minimal compatibility between 4e lore and the rest. You can always insert bits of lore you like from the option you don't choose, but you do need to choose.

I'm assuming you chose "not-4e" because if you chose 4e it's all one tightly connected edition so the issues aren't really going to arise.

Now lets go on to the basics of how the lore fits together in the rest of the editions.

1e was the foundation of the multiverse and general continuity of D&D lore.

2e expanded and zoomed-in on that lore. It contradicted it in places, but it mostly attempted to expand it rather than overwrite it. For instance, a lot of 2e lore material basically assumed you had access to the 1e stuff and were using it alongside it, or re-printed the important portions to make sure you did. 2e created a huge body of lore. Spelljammer placed all the Material Plane campaign settings in the same Material Plane, and Planescape connected everything else, building on existing 1e lore with a lot more flavor.

3e kept much of the lore from 1e and 2e--except when it didn't. It kept the same basic structure of the Great Wheel, but it gutted the Inner Planes, rearranged how the Astral and Ethereal worked, and placed every campaign setting at the center of its own multiverse rather than in a shared Material Plane and/or multiverse. At the same time, it added plenty of more or less compatible material that could be used to expand on the 2e lore in the same way it expanded the 1e lore.

5e rebuilt a multiverse somewhere between 2e and 3e, with some 4e inspiration. It put the settings all back into one Material Plane and multiverse. It put the astral and ethereal planes back to pre-3e. It didn't restore the lost Inner Planes, although it expanded on the Inner Planes with some 4e inspiration. With the Forgotten Realms, they tried to do a soft reset of most of the 4e changes, by having actual things happen in the world to put them back. With everything else they mostly assumed the 4e stuff was another multiverse (though they came up with some interesting thoughts in the DMG of how to interpret things in different ways).

Now on to how the Forgotten Realms lore interacts with the rest of it. Because the Forgotten Realms uses the standard multiverse pantheons for the non-humans (elves, dwarves, orcs, etc), most lore about that stuff, even from Forgotten Realms books, isn't Forgotten Realms specific--except when it is. The way you decide that it is Forgotten Realms specific is generally because it contradicts a more general book. Rarely does this happen before 3e. Most 2e lore about elven deities or what have you from a Forgotten Realms source is pretty much general Great Wheel stuff. Only when specifically mentioning Forgotten Realms history are you generally getting away from standard lore--except when you're not. See, some of those FR books will make it seem like the whole issue with Lolth and the drow happened on Faerun in the past. It may have, but it also was happening on other worlds if it did. Monsters area bit trickier. Most of them are standard D&D monsters, but there are a few that are unique to the Forgotten Realms. But a lot of the ones that are published in Forgotten Realms sources are not FR unique. That's probably going to be one of the hardest things to disentangle, is to figure out if something like a Wemic that came out in a Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium is actually a Forgotten Realms monster or a general monster. (Spoiler, it's not FR-specific.) The arrangement of the planes in 1e and 2e FR lore is the same as standard D&D, so no problem there.(1) I'll relate some tricks to figure this stuff out later.

Basically, what you have to do is decide on an order of edition priority for lore. I'll tell you how I do it, and then give you some examples of how this played out today when I was working on some of this stuff.

My priority of lore by editions is basically: 2e > 5e > (1e/3e) > (select 4e tidbits)

So I start with lore from 2e books, and see if 5e expands on it in a way that is useful (it often does). If there is a contradiction, I'm likely to say "well, someone believes that" and make the 5e lore in-character misconceptions. It's also not unusual to be able to salvage it and find some ways to make use of it that isn't much of a contradiction. Usually there is no need to go back to 1e lore, because 2e mostly encompasses it. 3e can be useful, but it can also heavily contradict things, so if it says something that doesn't fit it usually gets rejected (unless it's cool and I can find a way to insert it in without a contradiction). 4e gave us the Feywild and made the Plane of Shadow (as the Shadowfell) more significant, and I see no reason not to adopt those.

But that's just the conceptual overview.

What I was doing today was entering information on the Seldarine (Elven Pantheon) into a wiki-like database. I had a variety of source texts open and the Seldarine entry on a Forgotten Realms website. I took as my primary reference Planescape's On Hallowed Ground. My secondary reference was Mordenkainan's Tome of Foes--which I used as a list of deities to investigate the lore on. Starting with On Hallowed Ground, I then looked at the info in the 2e Monster Mythology. I discovered that I didn't really need to use the latter book for the elves, as On Hallowed Ground had the same lore with more flavor. I also had a DnD Gods List file open with the source of information about every D&D deity that has more than a name given to it, as of late 3e.

Here was the order of operations:
1) Look at next deity on the Seldarine pantheon list in Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes.
2) Look up that deity in the DnD Gods List to see what sources it came from. If those sources were not exclusively for a particular setting (2 appeared to be Greyhawk exclusives and one a Forgotten Realms exclusive) then I've identified that the deity is a part of standard D&D lore.
3) At this point, if I weren't including any 3e stuff, I would eliminate deities that only appeared in 3e books like Races of the Wild, but it didn't seem to be a problem to fit them in, so I kept them.
4) Read the information on the FR website, and ignore basically anything that contradicts what I read in On Hallowed Ground. Most ignored information was from 3e, but some was later 2e in FR sources. If it came from a FR source, I might make a note that people in Faerun believe that, but it's not really accurate in my game.
5) If something adds to but doesn't contradict On Hallowed Ground, use it unless I dislike it for some reason. In the latter case, I might say its one of those things some people in-setting believe, but isn't necessarily true.
6) Cross reference this back with Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes to see what 5e decided to do with it. Integrate what I like from that, leave out what I don't.
7) Record the lore elements I'm specifically recording in my database (locations of divine realms, relationships amongst the deities, holy symbols, 5e clerical domains, etc), and for the rest just put source and page number references for where I can find more information if I want to.

My version of the pantheon chart (presented in similar visual format to Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes and 5e style) ended up looking like this:

Seldarine.PNG


("Gender" on the chart refers to preferred/most common gender.)

As you can see, I left out a few deities. One was apparently an aspect of another, one has been absorbed (or perhaps their divine power absorbed), and the other left out one was that whole Angharradh crap that I think is an insult to the individuality of the goddesses.

The Core Powers were the traditional set of elven deities. The Additional Powers were the collection of standard elven deities that has accrued over the course of the lore. The Extended Powers at the end were the deities that were unique to a particular world.

If you compare my chart to the original you'll see where my research caused some differences in portfolios and symbols. The Rank is something I had to make a lot of judgment calls on, since 5e doesn't have Intermediate Powers(2), and many powers have changed rank a lot in different products. I came up with my own system for making those decisions a while ago.

Yes, this is a lot of work. Unfortunately, at this point in D&D's history, there is no way around doing something like this if you care about consistency and don't want to limit yourself to a single edition's lore. If you do limit yourself to a single edition's lore (and if you do, I recommend 2e by a longshot), you'll still run into occasional contradictions, but they'll be limited.

If you have the time and inclination though, there is a ton of D&D lore, and with a few upfront decisions you can avoid most of the issues and use most of the lore. Honestly, the lore is possibly my favorite part of D&D.

(1) Do note that this is the source of some of the issues with the Fugue Plain/Plane. FR existed in the same multiverse where the natural order of things is that the deceased drift to the home of their deity or just to the plane that fits their alignment and inclinations best. When the Fugue Plain (originally a location or planar realm in the Grey Waste (and possibly now back to that in 5e, but I don't think they say)) was established, it actually interrupted the more automatic sorting of souls and imposed harsher rules that literally are unnecessary, because other worlds are getting by just fine without them. (My personal way of dealing with it is to say that trapping all of that soul energy is why there are such an enormous number of powerful deities in the Forgotten Realms compared to other places.) 3e, with FR in it's own multiverse can say "that's just the way it is, otherwise things wouldn't work" but 2e FR can't say that because the neighbors are getting by equally well without doing it.
(2) Or demigods as actual spell-granting deities according to the DMG--but then they go and contradict that elsewhere, so I just put in Demipower as a traditional D&D rank for the weakest actual deities.
 

dave2008

Legend
First, you basically need to decide between 4e and not-4e. There is minimal compatibility between 4e lore and the rest. You can always insert bits of lore you like from the option you don't choose, but you do need to choose.
I disagree with that to some extent. 4e changed the general idea of how the cosmos is perceived, so do Eberron, and the World Tree cosmologies. Much of 4e, except for the primordials, is very similar if not the same as other editions. Pretty much everything that was in previous editions is in 4e, they just added the primordials and change a few things to accommodate that. You still have major things like:
  1. Blood war
  2. Correllon v Gruumsh
  3. Correllon v Lolth
  4. Sigil
  5. City of Brass
  6. the Nine Hells
  7. Demon of chaos vs wind dukes & rod of sever parts
  8. Chained god - Tharzidun
  9. Obyriths
  10. Far Realm
  11. etc., etc.
 

Making sense of the decades of lore would be no small task. Generally, I don't think most players even delve deeply enough to notice the contradictions (unless they're really into the lore of ages past, in which case they likely also understand that it's a snarl). Most people aren't going to care that if you go back far enough, the Blood War wasn't even a thing, for example.

Now, if someone tasked me with making it all make sense in the game, the approach I'd do is a mixture of things changing over time and an imperfect understanding of the world. We as players and DMs have the benefit of reading the books, whereas the people within the world do not. The idea that even the wisest of sages isn't sure whether Gruumsh had always been missing an eye or that Corellon took it out in battle, isn't that farfetched.
 

Voadam

Legend
I disagree with that to some extent. 4e changed the general idea of how the cosmos is perceived, so do Eberron, and the World Tree cosmologies. Much of 4e, except for the primordials, is very similar if not the same as other editions. Pretty much everything that was in previous editions is in 4e, they just added the primordials and change a few things to accommodate that. You still have major things like:
  1. Blood war
  2. Correllon v Gruumsh
  3. Correllon v Lolth
  4. Sigil
  5. City of Brass
  6. the Nine Hells
  7. Demon of chaos vs wind dukes & rod of sever parts
  8. Chained god - Tharzidun
  9. Obyriths
  10. Far Realm
  11. etc., etc.

Couple differences.

1 Are demons alignment outsiders or corrupted elementals?
2 Are devils alignment outsiders or corrupted angels?
3 Are elementals generally one element or mixes?
4 Are angels good alignment outsiders or servants of any god?
5 Are succubi demons or devils?
6 Are metallic dragons at base paragons of good or not?
7 Are undead immune to mind-affecting effects or not?
8 Are tieflings descended from any fiend or just devils?
9 Are archons LG alignment outsiders or elemental soldiers.
10 Are eladrin planar outsider elves or high elves.
 

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