OSR Must OSR = Deadly?

[embee]

We just took a boatload of henchmen and hirelings everywhere and used them mercilessly as meat shields until the PCs levelled up enough to be survivable. In the early days, the way we played if you actually took damage at any point you were doing it wrong.

Even a blue dragon in 1st edition didn't last long against a 100 man group with longbows.

That only works once. After that, you get a reputation for using hirelings as cannon fodder and no one wants to work for you. As Mal Reynolds said, "What good's a reward, kid, if you're ain't around to use it?"

 

[Sacrosanct]

While the mechanics are more unforgiving, you have to remember that back then (well from 1981 to 2012 for me and those who didn't stop playing 1e when the other editions came out lol), that you played more cautiously. You didn't just run into a room and roll initiative like so many people do now. You also weren't really rewarded for killing monsters. You were rewarded for getting treasure. So you avoided encounters when you could.

Then you also had larger parties back then. Either more PCs, or henchmen were pretty common, which I haven't seen since 3e came out.

 

[Oofta]

That gets problematic at higher levels. You're, in essence, giving shadow HP to higher level characters. Sure, officially, you have 106 hp. But really you have 53 sort-of HP below that. So you get knocked unconscious and are at 0 but if someone does 40 dmg, you're still not dead. That's way unbalanced.

But it doesn't have to be half ... I think we did 1/4 IIRC with a minimum. We may have had a max as well, but it's been a while. Point is that at it was effectively more difficult to kill that 1st level wizard (because bad guys rarely did much damage in 1 hit) than it was to take a fighter from hurt to dead in one round.

In any case I don't mind the 5E version because I can always double tap.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Also, you relied on tools a lot more. I recall the first time I used a flask of burning oil in 5e and it was extremely underwhelming. It hardly did anything, and monsters as weak as goblins just walked right though. In 1e, a flask of burning oil could easily outright kill goblins, kobolds, orcs, or other monsters.

 

[iserith]

Then you also had larger parties back then. Either more PCs, or henchmen were pretty common, which I haven't seen since 3e came out.

^ This. Load up on PCs, hirelings, and henchmen.

How is XP awarded in that game? If it's some other way than combat, then the players should probably want to avoid combat as much as they can.

 

[embee]

Also, you relied on tools a lot more. I recall the first time I used a flask of burning oil in 5e and it was extremely underwhelming. It hardly did anything, and monsters as weak as goblins just walked right though. In 1e, a flask of burning oil could easily outright kill goblins, kobolds, orcs, or other monsters.

Bag of flour. Throw it at a flame source to do 1d6 fire damage to all creatures in a 10' radius.

 

[AmerginLiath]

I always liked the Constitution score negative HP idea myself, such that an “average person” would die at –10, but a sturdy character might last to –16 or even –18 (while a weaker character at 8 Con needs help that much quicker). Especially in AD&D and it’s clones, where permanent Constitution depletes with resurrection, making the pull of death that much stronger bit by bit over time seems poetic.

Despite playing since the days of late 1st edition, I’m not sure I have any good suggestions, as I was always a player in one of the two extremes – either games where I knew my character was bound to die in one session or campaigns where fate was likely to intervene in some small way to help preserve us until those dramatic moments wherein all bets were off. Having, despite how much I often think of it, not actually revisited the system in play since childhood, I can only guess that it’s worth (looking at the magic-user example provided) figuring out how you want to play the segments such that the major mojo party-killer magic on both sides has a timer in which martial sorts can diffuse it with quicker actions.

 

[AmerginLiath]

Bag of flour. Throw it at a flame source to do 1d6 fire damage to all creatures in a 10' radius.

AD&D as a puzzle to be solved remains my favorite way to look at the game, and a reason why I‘m still cursed in modern systems to focus on building jacks-of-all-trades with nonsensical toolkits over anything optimized!

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

OSR should not have to mean deadly. I ran my games back in the day and while they were probably more lethal than the ones I run today, most of the characters survived. Honestly, I have a theory that a lot of the meatgrinder OSR attitudes come from modeling the bad behavior of young inexperienced DMs, because that's what most of us were back then. That and a lot of the modules came from tournaments, where getting to the end was supposed to be a struggle.

 

[Zardnaar]

Doesn't have to be deadly eg the DM sets out to do that but gritty is a big part of it where bad things can happen.

Looking at a lot of old adventures treasure was often hidden behind secret doors so loot and scoot can totally be done.