D&D 5E What is the appeal of the weird fantasy races?

[Zardnaar]

I agree. DMs shouldn't be forced to run things they don't like.

However, from my experience, the DM base is progressing a lot slower than the Player base when it comes to ideas. I can't tell you why though.

Dissolving games seen to be the thing. Experienced DMs generally offer stable games.

The players tend to gravitate those stable games.

My table/campaign rules while restrictive exist for a reason.

Fantasy communism "the right of the group to have fun outweighs your right to be an idiot".

"Do not deliberately build a bad character, don't go overboard in the powergaming"

Etc.

 

[Minigiant]

Dissolving games seen to be the thing. Experienced DMs generally offer stable games.

The players tend to gravitate those stable games.

My table/campaign rules while restrictive exist for a reason.

Fantasy communism "the right of the group to have fun outweighs your right to be an idiot".

"Do not deliberately build a bad character, don't go overboard in the powergaming"

Etc.

I think the dissolving game thing more has to do with how difficult scheduling is now.

People's work and home schedules are no longer as stable as the past. So until your regular game takes the same knock in everyone's schedule, games constantly tester on dissolution.

Even if it was experience, D&D and RPGs will not survive relying on the old vets.

D&D needs to teach newcomers to DM and it needs to do it quick.

Newcomers enjoy the games of Vets however based on how D&D is going and changing, this is not what they want. Looking at things like Xanatar's and Tasha's, the newcomers want a lot of new stuff. They are settling on "Classic D&D" because that's where most of the good DMs are.

I like hamburgers but I'll always want a good steak.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think the dissolving game thing more has to do with how difficult scheduling is now.

People's work and home schedules are no longer as stable as the past. So until your regular game takes the same knock in everyone's schedule, games constantly tester on dissolution.

Even if it was experience, D&D and RPGs will not survive relying on the old vets.

D&D needs to teach newcomers to DM and it needs to do it quick.

Newcomers enjoy the games of Vets however based on how D&D is going and changing, this is not what they want. Looking at things like Xanatar's and Tasha's, the newcomers want a lot of new stuff. They are settling on "Classic D&D" because that's where most of the good DMs are.

I like hamburgers but I'll always want a good steak.

One of my rules is you attend 75% of the time.

People with rotating shifts generally don't get to play. Been there done that doesn't work.

Probably why DM is god. They pick the time that suits them and then look for players who can make it.

 

[nevin]

Modern schedules definitely kill games. You get 6 adults and everything is great, then holiday's hit and you take a month or two off, then kids come along and then jobs change schedules change, people start traveling etc. My group of friends has actually played more now that covid has forced us to do it online. I don't think any of us prefer online games but we get to play more regularly.

 

[Don Durito]

One of my rules is you attend 75% of the time.

People with rotating shifts generally don't get to play. Been there done that doesn't work.

Probably why DM is god. They pick the time that suits them and then look for players who can make it.

They do the work. One thing I've seen a lot is that GMs just get burnt out. There aren't that many people who are able and willing to run a game week in week out, prepared or not. I've seen quite a lot of players get jazzed about running a game and then suddenly they're busy and can't prep it and the game ends or gets put on hold.

And a lot of modern gaming styles with VTTs and the like increase this workload on the GM.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I have found, in my own personal experience, that most non-human PCs get played in a much more stereotypical way than human PCs, something I don't like. As you said, you can do anything with humans, something you can't do with other races, so I see no reason to use them. I have also found that restricting PCs to humans only gives me a much better toolkit, it allows me to contrast the "mundane human world" with a "fantastical magical world" something I much prefer to the toolkit you imply. The more aliens that are running around, the less interesting each alien becomes.

In a fantasy setting I would have no problem with a human that has demon blood, or is part demon, or even part god like Hercules. They don't need horns to have demon blood, also, they don't need to be a whole different race. Also, given the existence of magic, I could see humans that have lived long enough to see the Roman Empire rise and fall. Again, they don't need to be a different race to do that, just magic!

I'm glad people find non-humans narratively useful, I don't.

For my table, absolutely! For your table, not at all! If you want 799 playable races, go hard! I don't! So unless you want to tell me about how I'm not following TheOneTrueWay by allowing non-humans in my games, you can sod off!

I'm not sure I understand what you mean here.

I'm not looking to gain anything other than to preserve my own fun as a DM. I don't gain any fun from having Centaur PCs. The player of a Centaur PC in a game I'm running might lose out on a lot of fun when they find out that human settlements have human sized doors, and that means the entire session that's dedicated to the King's Grand Ball sees them standing out in the street by themselves! As for the whole fluff thing, it's just fluff, to me, it is meaningless, as it can be changed on a whim and has no mechanical weight.

Have all the fun with non-humans as you want! I will have my fun without them!

I still think not having non-humans as playable races is a good thing.

I don't.

If non-human characters can be whatever a human can be then why bother?!? If a Klingon can be NOT an honor bound warrior, then they are just a funny looking human. I posted a whole bunch of stuff on this earlier in the thread, feel free to go read it.

So, all non-human races are just funny looking humans? If yes, what's the point of having non-humans? Funny looks and mechanical bonuses? That's what I think, that's why I don't bother using them.

Missed my point. I use good humans and evil humans. I also use monsters that are not humanoid and are evil cause they are monsters. You also again reinforce my point about how non-humans are just funny looking humans, that's the essence of why I don't like using them. I got tired of rubber forehead aliens a long time ago.

You sure like to read into what I'm posting. You should stop that.

It's interesting to me that you have this position that humans can be anything and non-humans are just humans with funny prosthetics, and then go on to describe something that would be distinctly different for a human vs. a centaur.

Simple thing..door size, right. But stuff like that is where races can bring a toooon of texture to your worlds.

What are settlements and furnishings like for a creature with a natural climb speed, or swim speed. What kinds and how much food does an adult creature at half human height eat? Is dwarven cuisine especially adventurous since they're less susceptible to poison. What's a 'short term' contract for someone who might live 600 years. Do Dragonborn have a stigma on sneezing in public? Do races with standard skill proficiencies bake that into how they build things or interact with each other. Are orcish threats or curses a form of artistic expression, such that other cultures adopt them.

These are chances to inject wonder and really try and imagine, what if ..not human.

 

[Zardnaar]

They do the work. One thing I've seen a lot is that GMs just get burnt out. There aren't that many people who are able and willing to run a game week in week out, prepared or not. I've seen quite a lot of players get jazzed about running a game and then suddenly they're busy and can't prep it and the game ends or gets put on hold.

And a lot of modern gaming styles with VTTs and the like increase this workload on the GM.

Pretty much I'm kind of the last DM left from say two years s ago.

There's kind of another she runs a short campaign of 10 or 12 weeks for new players and recruits on facebook. She's organized but doesn't dong term games.

Some of the other groups have potential but they seemed to be closed (friends and family only) ind the other groups dissolved for the year.

The national facebook group often getting people looking for games but they're in the wrong location, or gave specific times available etc.

I'm sure some find games but if your in a small town or outside 6 locations it's rough.

 

[zarionofarabel]

It's interesting to me that you have this position that humans can be anything and non-humans are just humans with funny prosthetics, and then go on to describe something that would be distinctly different for a human vs. a centaur.

Simple thing..door size, right. But stuff like that is where races can bring a toooon of texture to your worlds.

What are settlements and furnishings like for a creature with a natural climb speed, or swim speed. What kinds and how much food does an adult creature at half human height eat? Is dwarven cuisine especially adventurous since they're less susceptible to poison. What's a 'short term' contract for someone who might live 600 years. Do Dragonborn have a stigma on sneezing in public? Do races with standard skill proficiencies bake that into how they build things or interact with each other. Are orcish threats or curses a form of artistic expression, such that other cultures adopt them.

These are chances to inject wonder and really try and imagine, what if ..not human.

All things I have absolutely no interest in exploring in a game. I'm much more interested in exploring things like interpersonal relationships and morality and other ephemeral concepts. I moved beyond door size a long time ago. Having all those "what if it's not human" questions just get in they way of issues I want to explore.

 

[Gammadoodler]

All things I have absolutely no interest in exploring in a game. I'm much more interested in exploring things like interpersonal relationships and morality and other ephemeral concepts. I moved beyond door size a long time ago. Having all those "what if it's not human" questions just get in they way of issues I want to explore.

That's fine. You do realize, of course, that "I'm not interested in the ways that non-human races would differ from human races" is a very different thing to say than "All races are just humans in costumes."

And, if you're using your games to explore "issues" than for players to experience wonder, then, sure, I can see why you feel the way you do. That said fantasy rpgs tend to be predicated on..well..fantasy..as a key component and a lot of folks like that.

 

[Minigiant]

They do the work. One thing I've seen a lot is that GMs just get burnt out. There aren't that many people who are able and willing to run a game week in week out, prepared or not. I've seen quite a lot of players get jazzed about running a game and then suddenly they're busy and can't prep it and the game ends or gets put on hold.

And a lot of modern gaming styles with VTTs and the like increase this workload on the GM.

And I think this is on one the things that tilt the opinions on race, class, and settings.

Our DM base is tilting old because people with long running tables are the ones surviving long enough to try new ideas. Newcomer DMs are burning out fast or using shortcuts designed by old vets.

I wouldn't test my "War of the Pantheons" or "Age of Flight" campaigns on a new group. And it will be ulikely that they pushfor a nontraditional game with a new DM. So "Classic fake Tolkien in a bathroom sink with some Greywawk water" it is.

But that might not be what they want.