D&D 5E Shield Saltiness

[doctorbadwolf]

Well that's the question, isn't it?

Jokes about "fantasy Fu***** Vietnam" and all the NPCs being werewolves and vampires aside, the OP didn't actually give enough details for us to know that for sure.

He said they're running Curse of Strahd, but that doesn't tell me whether or not the PCs are routinely attacked in town (in which case, sure, I agree that being on guard makes sense), or whether most of the time they're safe in town, and the encounters in city limits are rare exceptions, in which case it would make more sense for villagers to give them the hairy eyeball for going around fully kitted up. I can't tell for sure from the OP whether the DM's being unreasonable, or the players are. Either way they should probably communicate better so they're on the same page and in a less adversarial stance, which was my main recommendation.

PS: I've walked around all day in armor and bearing a shield; IME it does get tiring and is certainly less comfortable than NOT wearing armor. And the shield wasn't too bad, but I certainly put it down sometimes (leaned it against a chair, or against my legs outdoors if standing) to give my arm an occasional break.

Right, it’s less comfortable than walking around in street clothes, and it’s really nice to take it off at the end of the day.
But only when I was in borrowed beginner armor was I dying to get out of it after a couple hours, or did I get chaffed and pinched.

The shield, yeah, that sounds exactly like my experience. Before I found that I fight better with a small round than with a heavy heater, I had my shield on my back of shading my helmet when possible because you can definitely feel it’s weight.

Armor ain’t like a backpack, the weight distribution is much, much, better. A shield is more like carrying a bag around all day. Doable, but only a weirdo refuses to set it down at all through the day.

 

[Mannahnin]

Depends on the armor, too. No matter how well fitted chain is, a mail hauberk always weighs on your shoulders and sucks by the end of the day even if you're used to it. Plate is usually well distributed if it's a decent fit, but the gambeson still gets hot and sweaty unless the weather is just right.

 

[Guest 6801328]

It is unrealistic and I'd never do it as a PC. It's tantamount to bag-o-rats or spamming Guidance before every skill check (as if your PC knows when an ally is about to make a skill check) or any other stupid gamist rubbish.

I likely wouldn't DM a player who did any of the above either. I hate that kind of reasoning nearly as much as I hate Players trying to weasel out of alignment violations.

And I wouldnt rule 'you cant wear armor around town'. I'd likely just have NPCs harass the heck out of the PC until they stopped. Impose disadvantage on Charisma checks (barring initimidate checks) is a start. Have NPC vendors refuse to serve them. Have them hassled by Cops and detained overnight on suspicion of troublemaking. And so forth.

And there is no mechanical balance argument. In 99 percent of cases the shield using PC is in a likely encounter area (i.e. a dungeon, a gloomy ruin or forest, the underdark etc etc) and will have their shield out, and weapon in hand.

Sometimes they wont. Sometimes the Wizard wont have Mage armor cast either. It's no big deal.

Do townspeople/guards also react badly to characters who walk around carrying unsheathed (or unsheathable) weapons like axes, hammers, and bows? If so, then you're fine. Carry on.

(Although, honestly, I would think that if you clean up the werewolf blood and walk into a tavern wearing shining plate armor, carrying a shield with an impressive coat of arms, it would actually help with social interactions in the cultures we're talking about. In my mind it's less analogous to modern body armor, and more like dress blues with ribbons and medals.)

 

[TheSword]

There is a big difference between having a hammer or axe through a loop at your belt than in your hand. Same goes for a shield on your back rather than in your hand.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I second this point. Hold the DM to the same standards he holds the players (but nicely, of course).

Bar brawl breaks out? Yeah, the pally will probably have to fight without his shield as the brawlers use their object interaction to unsheathe their weapons and don’t use shields themselves. Then again, this is probably not a situation where a whole lot depends on the paladin getting an extra +2 AC.

Hear a strange noise outside? This is the moment to use your action to don your shield. You’re on equal footing with the barbarian here.

Attacked by monsters while in town? Ask how far away the monsters are. Monsters don’t spawn 10’ away from people without making noise. Sure you lose an action equipping a shield (but not your movement), but the barbarian would tend to be limited to ranged attacks as well.

So here's the thing: I'm pretty sure the rule is intended to limit weapon-set swapping (i.e. instantly going from heavy crossbow to sword and board) mid-fight. It's not designed to occasionally, in certain edge cases, impose a one-round penalty that other characters don't face.

Wearing your shield on your back (or not wearing armor at all) while in town is not a rule, it's an aesthetic preference. So if you share that preference, and if you really want that visual in your head during town scenes, then just use a house rule that if your hands are empty, then in the first round of combat equipping a shield doesn't cost an action.

Solved.

Alternately, you can spiral downward into simulationism and historical realism, in which case I would question why you chose AD&D.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Depends on the armor, too. No matter how well fitted chain is, a mail hauberk always weighs on your shoulders and sucks by the end of the day even if you're used to it. Plate is usually well distributed if it's a decent fit, but the gambeson still gets hot and sweaty unless the weather is just right.

Yeah maille kinda sucks to wear, but it’s still more distributed than, say, a backpack of the same weight. Hell, even two backpacks, one with 3 inch straps vs the other with 1 inch straps, is a huge difference.
OTOH, maille is a great way to sweat out some body fat! obviously it’s tiring for the same reasons.

But yeah, armor is sweaty and tiring, and a delight to take off and change clothes (and ideally bathe! Adventurers would be willing to pay good gold for a hot bath in every town, unless they’re psychopaths!).

 

[Ace]

Depends on the armor, too. No matter how well fitted chain is, a mail hauberk always weighs on your shoulders and sucks by the end of the day even if you're used to it. Plate is usually well distributed if it's a decent fit, but the gambeson still gets hot and sweaty unless the weather is just right.

Yeah maille kinda sucks to wear, but it’s still more distributed than, say, a backpack of the same weight. Hell, even two backpacks, one with 3 inch straps vs the other with 1 inch straps, is a huge difference.
OTOH, maille is a great way to sweat out some body fat! obviously it’s tiring for the same reasons.

But yeah, armor is sweaty and tiring, and a delight to take off and change clothes (and ideally bathe! Adventurers would be willing to pay good gold for a hot bath in every town, unless they’re psychopaths!).

Yep. I have messed about with mail armor and even with the belt, I can't imagine wearing it day in and day out unless I had too. Throw in a stiflingly hot helmet and that is not going to be a nice day for very long. Even if I was in well made plate, unless I was directly in combat or under orders I'm taking that helmet off. Heck I hate wearing modern helmets unless necessary (on a motorcycle, job site or whatever)

Modern armor , kevlar with hard plates like the kind Flamestrike was talking about is rather analogous to a munitions grade coat of plates or a brigadine , in 5e terms scale mail . Most reenactors , SCADIANS and HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) guys don't use this stuff as far as I cal tell its not all that nice to wear. Caveat plastic scale was a local new guy cheap favorite among the SCA guys I met though I didn't join. I think 5E gets its pretty right stat wise.

As far as going to an assignation, it all campaign specific. In my own world such things range from Faux Ren Faire Fun to life threateningly hazardous.

 

[Brotton Goodfellow]

Mate, a plate carrier with inserts weighs around 25 lbs (around 10kgs). Slap 8 magazines, a radio, batteries, a FAK, knife, sling, retention lanyard, etc etc on it and you're at 40lbs+ in the blink of an eye. It only protects the chest and abdomen (and back and sides to a limited degree), and limits movement only slightly (you run slower, tire faster, cant sit or lie down properly) compared to a full suit of armor (greaves, gauntlets etc).

And you don't want to be wearing that 24/7. When in a relatively safe area (behind the wire in the rear echelon, or in a bunker etc) you tend to take it off because it's a pain in the ass to wear.

That's just the reality of it. I (personally) prefer depicting real people with real problems, and not some insane 'always in plate armour, even when doing my groceries' guy.

I'm more than happy for my AC to be 10+Dex from time to time because it would be stupid to assume I would be wearing armour while eating dinner or going shopping or relaxing at the local brothel, or seeing the sights in town.

You do you though. If you want to be this guy:

View attachment 129897

...then go

It was better than your 'I cosplayed as a Knight during a LARP tourney' once argument.

It's unavoidable! When you're wearing 20kgs of plates (ceramic or steel) encased in kevlar or cloth, you're going to get chafing and sweating. Sitting (and lying) down and standing up, and doing normal basic tasks become more difficult.

You can get a comfortable backpack with 20kgs in it and wear it around town all day, but I assure you, by the end of the day you're going to be sweaty and sore and are going to want to put it down. You're not going to want to wear it around town doing your shopping, sight seeing, getting dinner and so forth.


Relevant to an extent (Barovia is dangerous, its poorly policed, you are being watched by a powerful vampire, and the locals have seen it all), but it would still be super weird seeing someone walk into town in full plate armour, order an ale, before retiring to their room, and then come back down from their room, still decked out in the panoply of war.

Even in Barovia there are social norms to follow. At a bare minimum the dude in armour in such a scenario would be getting disadvantage to Charisma checks (barring Intimidate, where they might actually get advantage) and would be flat out refused service in many shops.

Image being a shopkeeper and some dude rocks into your shop wearing a plate carrier and ballistic helmet. You would be pushing the red panic button and lifting the security screens before he got 2 steps in the room.


Irrelevant to me. I expect realistic human behaviour from my PCs and reject absurdism.

Taking off your armour in town after a hard week on the road wearing it most of the day, and after numerous battles, is what a normal, sane human would do.

There is no 'in game' reason to do so (other than the DM slapping an exhaustion level on you for basically unrealistically living in your armour 24/7, and penalties to social interactions, or outright refusal of many PCs to even want to talk to you), but that doesnt take away from the utter absurdity of someone wearing armour all day, every day, even in towns and during downtime.

It doesnt happen. It has no historical precedent.

No, like people dont walk around literal warzones wearing amour and bearing arms all the time. Including soldiers.

Yeah, I get that. I wear body armour all the time and it can get annoying as hell, especially in hot weather. But if I’m in a war zone and see a dude armed and/or armoured I’m not going to think that’s out of place. How I might react is a different story, but to be surprised at seeing someone with a weapon or armour in a war zone is a tad bit silly, no? Translate that to a medieval fantasy setting filled with knights, barbarians and dragons. Seeing an armed/armoured guy walking around probably shouldn’t be all that out of place? I have a hard time seeing how any of this is important when playing D&D. Just something I am not in the least worried about when running the game.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, I get that. I wear body armour all the time and it can get annoying as hell, especially in hot weather. But if I’m in a war zone and see a dude armed and/or armoured I’m not going to think that’s out of place. How I might react is a different story, but to be surprised at seeing someone with a weapon or armour in a war zone is a tad bit silly, no? Translate that to a medieval fantasy setting filled with knights, barbarians and dragons. Seeing an armed/armoured guy walking around probably shouldn’t be all that out of place? I have a hard time seeing how any of this is important when playing D&D. Just something I am not in the least worried about when running the game.

Good point. Many D&D settings and locales are effectively war zones.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yep. I have messed about with mail armor and even with the belt, I can't imagine wearing it day in and day out unless I had too. Throw in a stiflingly hot helmet and that is not going to be a nice day for very long. Even if I was in well made plate, unless I was directly in combat or under orders I'm taking that helmet off. Heck I hate wearing modern helmets unless necessary (on a motorcycle, job site or whatever)

Modern armor , kevlar with hard plates like the kind Flamestrike was talking about is rather analogous to a munitions grade coat of plates or a brigadine , in 5e terms scale mail . Most reenactors , SCADIANS and HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) guys don't use this stuff as far as I cal tell its not all that nice to wear. Caveat plastic scale was a local new guy cheap favorite among the SCA guys I met though I didn't join. I think 5E gets its pretty right stat wise.

As far as going to an assignation, it all campaign specific. In my own world such things range from Faux Ren Faire Fun to life threateningly hazardous.

Yeah SCA noob armor tends to be very light hard plastic, but man a good steel breastplate feels good to wear by comparison, even with the added weight. Not having everything shift around or pinch or whatever when you move too much makes a huge difference.

IME and in the XP of reenactors who are also veterans that I know, the Kevlar and plate body armor in question is only really comparable in weight and total thickness (including gambeson) to any medieval armor, but “comparable” is a term with a ton of variation based on the POV of the speaker.